Where should there be "The right to refuse service"?

Duplicate post deleted.Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Like I said, 320 million people. 4 cases, one allegedly, but not apparently actually, fined. There are always a few nutters wanting to be martyrs to a silly cause - so be it. How many have been fined for not wearing a seat belt?Get over yourself, lead a good Christian life and obey a humane and civilised law intended to reduce discrimination and hatred in society. If you can't, then you can live with the enormous consequences of a fine. Ffs - it's not like you're getting your feet crushed, nails pulled out and being disembowelled. Persecution my arse. Just try to be nice to people like your good Lord instructed you to be.You're lucky that there is no afterlife and judgement, if there was you'd be in a lot of trouble with your maker - he made gays too you know.

Sure. And if the place you are not welcome is essentially the entire city you live in, then you can just move right? If not going where you are not wanted means never knowing if you are going to be allowed to by food or gas when you travel then that would be just too effing bad as well, right?Because that's what the country was like back in 1940-1955 and even beyond that in some places. Well it turns out that despite the initial agony over integration, black people eat at lunch counters all over North Carolina without fear of having their food spat into. I consider that a win. Yes, that would certainly contribute to good order. How about letting people who want to discriminate just hang a noose from the light post?

A good Christian life means obeying God over men.

So people who choose bigotry over obeying God aren't good Christians.Really I blame the right-wing politicians who have whipped up all sorts of hate and ill-feeling over the issue. Gay marriage should be pretty much a non-event for the majority. It has very little impact on anyone who isn't gay. Except for those that want to take advantage of the law to discriminate against gays. Makes you wonder what lies behind all the rhetoric, doesn't it ?

Come on, aren't you a little nostalgic for the days of'No Blacks
No Dogs
No Irish'
?

Those signs perpetuate bad feelings and bad behavior that would mostly die out over time. Not even the bigots who hate gays want to put such signs up on their businesses, because it makes them look like monsters. Well, most of them don't anyway.

Mark 12
28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, Of all the commandments, which is the most important?29 The most important one, answered Jesus, is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[e] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[f]31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[g] There is no commandment greater than these.I don't see a sub-clause caveat saying31.1a 'unless your neighbour is gay'Do you?

Come visit any town in central Carolina around the end of any month, and drive around without fastening your shoulder harness.

I heard that when Sicily enacted a seatbelt law that there was a sudden large market for shirts with diagonal 2" wide black bands.

I think Faith may have made o good point somewhere upthread when she suggested that it was a matter of denying a particular service rather than a particular group or individual. Should a person have the right to deny a specific service that is offensive as long as it doesn't extend into areas of general services that would exclude individuals.For example, if a member of the KKK came in and wanted you to bake a cake for their rally that said "We hate *****", you should be free to respond, "I don't provide that service (making cakes that promote hatred and bigotry). However, I do bake cakes, so I can bake a cake with no inscription on it and you can write whatever you want on it."Could this same response be made to a same sex couple who want a wedding cake? "I don't provide that service (same sex wedding cakes) but I do bake wedding cakes. I can make you a wedding cake and sell you two sets of bride/groom cake toppers and you can put them on yourself."How would those two situations be different?Would that be enough to ease the conscious of the person who doesn't support same-sex marriage?HBDEdited by herebedragons, : No reason given.

Another question.Does anyone see a distinction between secular marriage (marriage recognized by the state) and religious marriage (recognized by the church). Should churches be forced to perform same-sex marriages and therefore sanction such marriages? Or should we recognize that there is two separate aspects to marriage, a legal, state sanctioned aspect and a religious, church sanctioned aspect?Or to put it another way, should churches reserve the right to deny this service?HBD

That wasn't the issue in at least one case, according to what I read. The bakers refused flat out to provide a cake for a gay wedding before even getting to the topic of decoration.Not that I expect Faith to actually care about the details of the cases,many more than she cared about the actual laws involved.

quote:

---

Does anyone see a distinction between secular marriage (marriage recognized by the state) and religious marriage (recognized by the church)

---

Yes, and I wish that they were made more distinct.

quote:

---

Should churches be forced to perform same-sex marriages and therefore sanction such marriages?

---

I'm not aware of anyone asking for this or any reason to think that it is at all likely to happen. I don't want it to happen. The churches (mosques, synagogues, temples) can decide their own rules, so long as they deal in purely religious matters.

Lol! I don't believe that tactic would work here. I've been stopped a couple times for seat belt violations. In each case, the policeman approached me from behind. I'm sure that the policeman spotted the lack of a harness coming from the door and crossing my body. You cannot fake that with a T-shirt.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.