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Author Topic:   Some water measurements for the Flood
Percy
Member
Posts: 18801
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 4 of 276 (729819)
06-19-2014 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
06-19-2014 6:25 AM


Your math is correct.

But I thought there were two sources of flood water: rain and the "fountains of the deep."

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Faith, posted 06-19-2014 6:25 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Faith, posted 06-19-2014 6:07 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18801
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 65 of 276 (729899)
06-21-2014 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Faith
06-20-2014 5:48 AM


Evangelicals believe the flood was a miracle. This is from the definition of miracle in Baker's Evangelical Dictionary. Baker's uses the same definition of miracle you do but understands the world-wide flood described in the Bible couldn't have been natural. Baker's not only calls the flood a miracle, it calls it a "major miracle":

Baker's writes:

Although English speakers regularly use "miracle" to refer to a broad range of wondrous events, the biblical concept is limited to those not explainable solely by natural processes but which require the direct causal agency of a supernatural being, usually God...
...
The next major miracle, the flood, thus affirms both God's judgment on extreme wickedness...

Answers in Genesis also believes the flood a miracle. This is from Did Miracles Really Happen?:

Answers in Genesis writes:

Other miraculous events in Genesis would include the Flood...

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Faith, posted 06-20-2014 5:48 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Faith, posted 06-21-2014 7:55 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18801
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 104 of 276 (729952)
06-22-2014 8:09 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Faith
06-21-2014 6:24 PM


Re: why not miracle
Faith writes:

Ah ye of little faith. A few hundred devoted prayer warriors could turn the Mojave into a lush green paradise.

Perhaps ye of great faith could pray for an end to war, hunger and ethnic hatred. The number of displaced peoples has just reached the highest level since World War II: article

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Faith, posted 06-21-2014 6:24 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 9:31 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18801
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 105 of 276 (729953)
06-22-2014 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Faith
06-22-2014 2:18 AM


Re: why not miracle
Hi Faith,

Hooah is trying to see if you can describe a path to your conclusions using facts and reasoning (i.e., science) rather than faith and belief.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 2:18 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 9:34 AM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18801
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 108 of 276 (729956)
06-22-2014 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Faith
06-22-2014 9:34 AM


Re: why not miracle
Faith writes:

I've followed the only path there is and answered him quite aptly. Do you discern another route?

If by "answered him quite aptly" you mean you consider an answer based on faith sufficient for a scientific question, then yes, I "discern another route."

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 9:34 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 10:06 AM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18801
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 111 of 276 (729963)
06-22-2014 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Faith
06-22-2014 10:06 AM


Re: why not miracle
Faith writes:

No I challenged his very concept of a dichotomy between faith and science in this case. He's wrong.

Are you saying there's no "dichotomy between faith and science in this case"? If so then that's interesting, bewildering even, but not the topic here.

Anyway, Hooah and everyone else in this science thread are interested in the evidence you can bring to support your conclusions and not in your faith that you are right.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Quote more fully.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 10:06 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 6:08 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18801
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 118 of 276 (729972)
06-22-2014 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Dr Adequate
06-22-2014 3:29 PM


Re: why not miracle
Dr Adequate replying to Faith writes:

I still am, I don't see what can have confused you.

There are two interpretations of what you said in the sequence of messages from your Message 98 to your Message 102. Here's the sequence:

Dr Adequate in Message 98 writes:

If you want to do something even more unarguably miraculous, try making the Mojave bloom except for a perfect circle, ten miles in radius, centered on the Las Vegas Strip.

Faith in Message 101 writes:

That would actually be a lot easier than making it bloom within that circle, since it encompasses the area of most spiritual resistance.

Dr Adequate in Message 102 writes:

That's what I was thinking.

What you're referring to in this part of your Message 102 isn't unambiguous. You could be referring to making it bloom within the circle. Or you could be referring to the belief that making it bloom outside the circle would be easier.

So now it's clear you meant the latter, but not why you think it would be harder to offer a non-prayer explanation for blooming outside the radius rather than inside. Is it because of all the water supply infrastructure around Las Vegas?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-22-2014 3:29 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 6:10 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 134 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-22-2014 8:16 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18801
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 142 of 276 (729998)
06-22-2014 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Dr Adequate
06-22-2014 8:16 PM


Re: why not miracle
Okay, a perfect circle. How does that explain why turning the Mojave green outside the circle is harder to provide a natural explanation for? Or isn't that part important? Anyway, if you're confusing me then you're probably confusing Faith, too.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Typos.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-22-2014 8:16 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-22-2014 9:43 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18801
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 145 of 276 (730001)
06-22-2014 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Faith
06-22-2014 6:08 PM


Re: why not miracle
What we're interested in is the facts you can bring to bear to support your conclusions.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 6:08 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 9:52 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18801
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 148 of 276 (730004)
06-22-2014 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Dr Adequate
06-22-2014 9:43 PM


Re: why not miracle
Dr Adequate writes:

Because natural meteorological phenomena aren't good at geometry.

I thought it was a perfect circle either way, with the two scenarios being inside the circle becomes green versus outside the circle becomes green.

If an exception is made for Nevada's own little Nineveh, this looks more like it's intentional.

Another point of view could be that if prayer could work miracles in sin city, that would appear even more intentional.

I don't actually have opinions on this either way. I'm just trying to make clear why Faith might be confused about what you're saying.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-22-2014 9:43 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 10:05 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
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