Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 80 (9005 total)
50 online now:
AnswersInGenitals, AZPaul3, dwise1, PaulK, Tangle (5 members, 45 visitors)
Newest Member: kanthesh
Post Volume: Total: 881,115 Year: 12,863/23,288 Month: 588/1,527 Week: 27/240 Day: 8/19 Hour: 1/2

Announcements: Topic abandonment warning (read and/or suffer the consequences)


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Some water measurements for the Flood
ringo
Member
Posts: 18756
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 5 of 276 (729821)
06-19-2014 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
06-19-2014 6:25 AM


Faith writes:

120 feet in 24 hours. Or 4800 feet by the end of the forty days and nights of the rainful. That would pretty well cover the pre-Flood mountains which weren’t anywhere near as high as the mountains we have now that were formed by tectonic force.

Please correct my arithmetic if necessary.


Your math is okay - and I've seen five inches of rain in fifteen minutes myself so your rate doesn't seem unreasonable.

However, your mangling of the Bible is atrocious. It says nothing about tectonic forces building mountains during the flood. What you need is enough water to reach the highest places where people were living. (Technically, the Bible says "all the high mountains" but we can reasonably lower the water level by a few thousand feet without having any escapees.)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Faith, posted 06-19-2014 6:25 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18756
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 40 of 276 (729871)
06-20-2014 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Faith
06-20-2014 11:01 AM


Re: why not miracle
Faith writes:

To my mind God's saying He's going to open the windows of heaven doesn't carry any more supernatural significance than saying He's going to bring the Assyrian army to devastate Israel....


The difference is that the Assyrians could come of their own volition whereas the windows of heaven can not open voluntarily or by any human agency. If the windows of heaven could open naturally, you'd have to explain why they did so once and only once in the history of the planet. Happening only once is an earmark of a miracle.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 06-20-2014 11:01 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Faith, posted 06-20-2014 1:01 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18756
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 43 of 276 (729874)
06-20-2014 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Faith
06-20-2014 1:01 PM


Re: why not miracle
Faith writes:

I don't care if you want to regard it as a miracle, just please allow me the right not to read it as a miracle.


You have the right to any silly idea you want. And since this is a debate forum, I have the right to point out how silly your ideas are.

Believing that the flood happened is silly. Believing that it happened by wholly natural means is even sillier.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Faith, posted 06-20-2014 1:01 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18756
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 114 of 276 (729967)
06-22-2014 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Faith
06-22-2014 9:31 AM


Re: why not miracle
Faith writes:

What you are asking is beyond our meager resources.


What resources does prayer require?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 9:31 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 6:34 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18756
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 190 of 276 (730054)
06-23-2014 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Faith
06-22-2014 6:34 PM


Re: why not miracle
Faith writes:

I should have said something more like "Hope of success is beyond our meager resources." It would be hard enough, and probably impossible really, to get a few hundred people praying with enough consistency and fervency to make the Mojave desert bloom, but when you are talking about praying to solve the problem of millions of people displaced by evil political machinations in the name of militant Islam, that would take millions of prayer warriors praying around the clock, a tall order. Of course, as you say, we can all pray about it anyway and hope we have some positive impact on the problem. Usually it's a great thing if we have enough united prayer to deal with a local problem in the local church.


So prayer doesn't work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 6:34 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 12:35 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18756
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 195 of 276 (730061)
06-23-2014 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by Faith
06-23-2014 12:11 PM


Faith writes:

The sham is your crazy insistence that something has to be miraculous just because you can't tell a metaphor from a literal description.


Is there a beam in your eye at all?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 12:11 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 12:23 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18756
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 197 of 276 (730063)
06-23-2014 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Faith
06-23-2014 12:23 PM


Faith writes:

NN has shown that's his problem, prove that it's mine before you spout off.


Believing the creation story and the flood story is a clear indication that you can't tell the difference between reality and fiction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 12:23 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 12:39 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18756
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 200 of 276 (730066)
06-23-2014 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Faith
06-23-2014 12:35 PM


Re: why not miracle
Faith writes:

You really do need prayer in agreement with others, often many others, to move God to change things on a great scale.


Jesus disagrees with you again.
quote:
Matthew 7:7-8 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Every one that asketh receiveth. You don't need a whole flock of people knocking at the door.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 12:35 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 2:07 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18756
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 201 of 276 (730067)
06-23-2014 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by Faith
06-23-2014 12:39 PM


Faith writes:

NOT believing it is more an indication that you don't believe God but prefer your own fictions to His revelation of truth, that's all.


The fiction is yours. You've made up stories about tectonic upheavals during the flood - none of which is in the Bible - in a vain attempt to decrease the amount of water needed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 12:39 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 2:11 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18756
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 241 of 276 (730160)
06-24-2014 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by Faith
06-23-2014 2:07 PM


Re: why not miracle
Faith writes:

For worldscale results yes you do


"Nuh uh," isn't much of a response. I quoted Jesus saying, "No you don't."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 2:07 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18756
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 242 of 276 (730161)
06-24-2014 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 206 by Faith
06-23-2014 2:11 PM


Faith writes:

The tectonic activity has nothing to do with the amount of water involved and I never said it did.


Yes you did, in Message 1:
Faith writes:

120 feet in 24 hours. Or 4800 feet by the end of the forty days and nights of the rainfall. That would pretty well cover the pre-Flood mountains which weren’t anywhere near as high as the mountains we have now that were formed by tectonic force.


You specifically calculated for mountains that are lower than the ones that exist and you made up a non-Biblical mountain growth during the flood.

I even tried to help you out by noting in Message 5 that, "What you need is enough water to reach the highest places where people were living."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 2:11 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by Faith, posted 06-24-2014 4:19 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18756
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 254 of 276 (730208)
06-25-2014 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 248 by Faith
06-24-2014 4:19 PM


Faith writes:

I didn't calculate "for" that purpose at all.


Regardless of your unspoken motivations, you did say that the amount of water you calculated was sufficient to cover the mountains that you "surmise" existed pre-flood. I'm simply pointing out that your surmise is total fiction, totally extra-Biblical. You can't pretend that your scenario is Bible-based when you're making up half of it.

Faith writes:

As for the tectonic cause of the higher mountains we have today I've argued that already in many a thread.


And you've been shown that your argument violates the laws of physics, yet you stubbornly deny any miracle.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Faith, posted 06-24-2014 4:19 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020