Some water measurements for the Flood

I dunno Faith, maybe it was....a miracle?

Faith writes: In Exodus He does say He's going to "do marvels" too,

Well if *causing* - ie making something happen - like flooding the earth to a point higher than the highest mountain by *causing* it to rain like it hasn't done since and *causing* a selection from all animals on the planet to treck to a desert in the back end of no-where and *predicting* this event in good time to *tell* Noah to build an impossible boat isn't pretty damn marvellous, you must be very underwhelmed by Penn and Teller.

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Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

How does sin cause a selection of every animal on earth to present themselves to a single point in the middle East at a single point in time, just in time?

Faith writes: Now that may be regarded as a miracle. Unless we think in terms of animals having a special sense that moves them in such a way, as they apparently sense some natural things like earthquakes in advance. ABE: But selecting by twos and sevens, no, I have to agree, that's a miracle.

Progress of sorts. So at least part of the flood story was miraculous. I see no reason why the rest couldn't be.

You're trying to make the case that because rain is natural it follows that the flood was natural. You're failing at that level because the sort of things that would have to happen with the water is impossible, but that aside, you are omitting causation.

God caused the flood to happen, he said as much, he predicted it and made it happen. That alone makes it a miracle - he manipulated the climate, the weather and seismic activity, what else could it be other than miraculous intervention?

Faith writes: ....and the windows of heaven were opened

How could the 'windows of heaven' be opened without a miracle?

Interesting. For the parts of the flood story where it's "obvious" that it must be miraculous - such as the animals arriving at the ark two by two from all points of the globe - you are ok for them to be miraculous. The parts where you want there to be a "natural" explanation but where there plainly isn't; it's metaphorical. But where there is still some tiny hope that you can shoehorn in some part of science that fits your model, you still feel the need to do so.

I don't get it. Make the whole damn thing miraculous and we have no argument with you. What's with the need to make something natural that is claimed by god himself to be god's work? Trying to say that it was a natural event diminishes god, reduces its religious power to zero and makes the event humdrum.

You're shooting your beliefs in the metaphorical foot.

It's really weird Faith, when you talk about science it's plainly garbage - which I suppose is understandable - but when you talk about the bible it's just as bad.

It's a pretty impressive delusion.

I competely understand your need to believe that.

You're the little girl walking in the Sunday church parade; everyone is out of step except you. All the spectators can see it, people are shouting for you to get into step, but you know that you're right and everyone else needs to change, not you.

Good luck with that.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Faith writes: Your personal comments are sleazy and unwarranted.

I competely understand your need to believe that.