Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 85 (8915 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 07-18-2019 9:27 PM
33 online now:
dwise1, edge, JonF (3 members, 30 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: 4petdinos
Post Volume:
Total: 856,976 Year: 12,012/19,786 Month: 1,793/2,641 Week: 302/708 Day: 77/52 Hour: 0/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Some water measurements for the Flood
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


(3)
Message 8 of 276 (729832)
06-19-2014 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Faith
06-19-2014 6:07 PM


I dunno Faith, maybe it was....a miracle?

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Faith, posted 06-19-2014 6:07 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Faith, posted 06-19-2014 7:09 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 32 of 276 (729861)
06-20-2014 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Faith
06-20-2014 8:37 AM


Re: why not miracle
Faith writes:

In Exodus He does say He's going to "do marvels" too,

Well if *causing* - ie making something happen - like flooding the earth to a point higher than the highest mountain by *causing* it to rain like it hasn't done since and *causing* a selection from all animals on the planet to treck to a desert in the back end of no-where and *predicting* this event in good time to *tell* Noah to build an impossible boat isn't pretty damn marvellous, you must be very underwhelmed by Penn and Teller.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Faith, posted 06-20-2014 8:37 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 33 of 276 (729862)
06-20-2014 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Faith
06-20-2014 8:37 AM


Re: why not miracle
duplicate deleted

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Faith, posted 06-20-2014 8:37 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 58 of 276 (729892)
06-21-2014 2:04 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Faith
06-20-2014 10:05 PM


Re: why not miracle
How does sin cause a selection of every animal on earth to present themselves to a single point in the middle East at a single point in time, just in time?

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 06-20-2014 10:05 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Faith, posted 06-21-2014 2:13 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 61 of 276 (729895)
06-21-2014 3:35 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Faith
06-21-2014 2:13 AM


Re: why not miracle
Faith writes:

Now that may be regarded as a miracle. Unless we think in terms of animals having a special sense that moves them in such a way, as they apparently sense some natural things like earthquakes in advance.
ABE: But selecting by twos and sevens, no, I have to agree, that's a miracle.

Progress of sorts. So at least part of the flood story was miraculous. I see no reason why the rest couldn't be.

You're trying to make the case that because rain is natural it follows that the flood was natural. You're failing at that level because the sort of things that would have to happen with the water is impossible, but that aside, you are omitting causation.

God caused the flood to happen, he said as much, he predicted it and made it happen. That alone makes it a miracle - he manipulated the climate, the weather and seismic activity, what else could it be other than miraculous intervention?


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Faith, posted 06-21-2014 2:13 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Faith, posted 06-21-2014 6:46 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 169 of 276 (730031)
06-23-2014 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by Faith
06-23-2014 10:30 AM


Re: why not miracle
Faith writes:

....and the windows of heaven were opened

How could the 'windows of heaven' be opened without a miracle?


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 10:30 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 10:59 AM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 179 by herebedragons, posted 06-23-2014 11:21 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


(3)
Message 221 of 276 (730107)
06-23-2014 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Faith
06-23-2014 4:43 PM


Re: Its Literally Metaphoric
Interesting. For the parts of the flood story where it's "obvious" that it must be miraculous - such as the animals arriving at the ark two by two from all points of the globe - you are ok for them to be miraculous. The parts where you want there to be a "natural" explanation but where there plainly isn't; it's metaphorical. But where there is still some tiny hope that you can shoehorn in some part of science that fits your model, you still feel the need to do so.

I don't get it. Make the whole damn thing miraculous and we have no argument with you. What's with the need to make something natural that is claimed by god himself to be god's work? Trying to say that it was a natural event diminishes god, reduces its religious power to zero and makes the event humdrum.

You're shooting your beliefs in the metaphorical foot.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 4:43 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 10:35 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


(5)
Message 265 of 276 (730227)
06-25-2014 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Faith
06-25-2014 3:10 PM


Re: Scripture
It's really weird Faith, when you talk about science it's plainly garbage - which I suppose is understandable - but when you talk about the bible it's just as bad.

It's a pretty impressive delusion.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Faith, posted 06-25-2014 3:10 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Faith, posted 06-25-2014 4:34 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 267 of 276 (730252)
06-26-2014 2:58 AM
Reply to: Message 266 by Faith
06-25-2014 4:34 PM


Re: Scripture
I competely understand your need to believe that.

You're the little girl walking in the Sunday church parade; everyone is out of step except you. All the spectators can see it, people are shouting for you to get into step, but you know that you're right and everyone else needs to change, not you.

Good luck with that.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Faith, posted 06-25-2014 4:34 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by Faith, posted 06-26-2014 3:08 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 269 of 276 (730254)
06-26-2014 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by Faith
06-26-2014 3:08 AM


Re: Scripture
Faith writes:

Your personal comments are sleazy and unwarranted.

I competely understand your need to believe that.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Faith, posted 06-26-2014 3:08 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019