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Author Topic:   Continuation of Flood Discussion
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 55 of 1304 (731313)
04-30-2014 6:56 PM


Re: How does aerial deposition make such a flat layer?
I know the Coconino has a crossbedding at an angle of repose that suggests it has to have been formed aerially...

You still haven't tried your angle of repose kit????


  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 64 of 1304 (731322)
05-01-2014 8:15 AM


Re: Rox's post on related things
Faith: you have a handy-dandy angle-of-repose kit in your possession. I have the delivery receipt from FedEx. There is everything you need in that kit, except for water, to do angles of repose until you are exhausted.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ ABOUT IT.

YOU CAN DO THE FREAKING EXPERIMENT YOURSELF.

Please, just for sweet, gentle Coragyps, do the experiment yourself, or just shut up about angles of repose.

If you need sea water instead of tap, give me the analysis of sea water from The Flood, and I will send you a mix of salts to prepare some. Well, unless it contains dissolved Gopher Wood.


"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 72 of 1304 (731330)
05-01-2014 5:40 PM


Re: Question
Accursed protractor-stealing FedEx employees! I may have to sue!

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 505 of 1304 (731763)
06-29-2014 1:35 PM


Dear heart, the age of the chalk at Dover must, of complete necessity, be greater than the age of the Cliffs. If only by an hour or two....
But it's by more than an hour or two, you see.

"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(1)
Message 863 of 1304 (732454)
07-07-2014 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 862 by edge
07-07-2014 3:42 PM


Re: Evaporites
However, salt is also plastic and will flow under uneven loads. So, if there is more weight on one part of a salt bed, it will try to relieve the stress by flowing away from that excess load.

And before you say that this is only conjecture or imagination, Faith, go see the people at Morton Salt in Grand Saline, Texas or at the WIPP project over near Carlsbad, New Mexico. They mine salt. They watch it deform. WIPP was built in salt beds to take advantage of this creep to be sure our radioactive waste gets encapsulated.

And yes, there is gypsum in beds beneath the salt. All evaporates.


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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(2)
Message 867 of 1304 (732471)
07-07-2014 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 864 by Faith
07-07-2014 4:51 PM


Re: Evaporites
The order of precipitation is also interesting but of course my task as a YEC is to figure out how the water from which it all precipitates got there after all the strata above were already in place.

And while you are figuring, figure out a place for many thousands of tons of water vapor per acre to go while it is covered in damp but nearly solid or at least kinda firm sediment.

Or if you can figure a way for fresh water to escape in the liquid form from the salt it once had dissolved in it by, say, filtration through limestone or osmosis through gopher-wood membrane - that would be nearly as good.

So your task is to 1) float some strata on mildly salty water and 2) remove the water alone, leaving the salts behind in layers.


"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

This message is a reply to:
 Message 864 by Faith, posted 07-07-2014 4:51 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 868 by Faith, posted 07-07-2014 7:37 PM Coragyps has responded

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 870 of 1304 (732484)
07-07-2014 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 868 by Faith
07-07-2014 7:37 PM


Re: Evaporites
How do evaporites form without evaporation, Faith? Or how does evaporation proceed under layers of rock? What am I confusing there, Faith?

This message is a reply to:
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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 879 of 1304 (732572)
07-08-2014 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 878 by Faith
07-08-2014 2:27 PM


Re: please demystify "depositional environment"
So a deposit that was laid down in the middle of a Great Fludde was not laid in a flood environment?

Do you really think that silt deposited along the Nile during a flood (back before they dammed the river up) and a mud + boulder slide on the California coast are not "environments" that can be told apart from each other? Of course they are different depositional environments!


This message is a reply to:
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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 881 of 1304 (732581)
07-08-2014 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 880 by Faith
07-08-2014 4:21 PM


Re: please demystify "depositional environment"
OK - without looking up the source, I can be fairly confident about a few parts...

Data indicate that the environment in central Saskatchewan was more oxygen- restricted. From base to top, the depositional environment of the Neely Member changed from relatively deep, offshore settings, through higher energy, shallower water conditions represented by domical stromatoporoids, to intertidal and supratidal conditions. The Hubbard Evaporite Member was deposited in salt pan to saline mudflat environment, and the overlying First Red Bed formed in environments that ranged from saline mudflat, dry mudflat to distal floodplain. "

Near the base, I would say that the sediments were very fine-grained and didn't show ripples. (Deep water, below wave action). Likely very few burrows (low oxygen, little life crawling or digging). Higher energy environments are likely larger-grained sediments (the silt washes away...) and may well have ripple marks. Stromatoporoids were relatives of our modern sponges - presumably they all died in the Flood, though.

Intertidal and supratidal deposits are going to show ripples, etc.

A real geologist can go from here....


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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(2)
Message 895 of 1304 (732640)
07-09-2014 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 888 by Faith
07-09-2014 12:34 AM


Re: please demystify "depositional environment"
But even if it took millions, the idea of depositional environments becoming stacked one on top of another identifiable by different kinds of rock is nuts. Wny isn't this obvious and why can't I say why it's nuts?

You can say it's nuts if you like, but try another example first. Let's imagine that the Nile had a big flood in 1960, leaving a couple of feet of mud and silt along its banks. This sediment dried out, and then, in 1966 and 1967, big sandstorms covered the it with desert sand. A big flood in 1968 then laid more mud over the sand. The Aswan High Dam was finished in 1970, and stopped the floods, and sandstorms since then laid more sand on top of that second silt layer.

Is it "nuts" to say that you could not tell the sands from the silts if you took a shovel and dug a hole through this (short) stack? I think I could do it.


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 Message 888 by Faith, posted 07-09-2014 12:34 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 901 of 1304 (732673)
07-09-2014 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 899 by Faith
07-09-2014 4:39 PM


Re: Dessication
First question I had was how the Old Earth system explains it if some of those layers never saw the light of day as it were.

Your answer is in your statement. "Some" is not "all."


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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(2)
Message 904 of 1304 (732676)
07-09-2014 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 898 by Faith
07-09-2014 4:32 PM


Re: nuts and rocks and time periods
And their different fossil contents that supposedly tell us what a particular time period was like, what the climate was, what creatures lived then.

For the umpteenth time of asking: why has no crab fossil ever been found among trilobite fossils, or vice versa? Both tend toward being seafloor kinds of critters. Both are flattish, generally small, both have shells - HOW did a flood separate their little corpses 100%?

And that example is the first of many hundreds I could find, some of which I have presented before - dimetrodons, triceratops, and ground sloths, for one. How "nuts" is it that one single event can do that kind of sorting?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 898 by Faith, posted 07-09-2014 4:32 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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