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Author | Topic: Neither a theist nor an atheist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2132 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
It really is as they say: "you see what you want to see". And if you truly want to see what the facts say when they are allowed to speak for themselves then you will indeed see that too. This is kind of odd coming from a creationist. Creationists are very adept at seeing what they want to see in spite of the facts.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
My point is that neither Faith nor marc9000 nor Phat actually knows what they profess to believe. And my point is that their belief alone, whether well supported or unfounded, is enough to disqualify them as agnostic.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
uh.
Edited by NoNukes, : Want to stay out of this...Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 828 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
This should help you:
*Gnosticism has nothing to do with belief, so it is wrong to say "their belief alone" even has anything to do with their agnosticism. It's usually best to stick with common vernacular and usage and since the religious don't like the word agnostic (they associate it with atheism still), that leaves atheists/secular minded folk as the main users of the word and this chart is generally the most common usage of agnosticism. Take note that one cannot simply be agnostic or gnostic since you have to have something to be agnostic about. Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: Would you go so far as to say that there are no gnostic theists? If they plausibly exist, how does their belief differ from mine? My point is that neither Faith nor marc9000 nor Phat actually knows what they profess to believe.When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to meannothing more nor less.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 311 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
At this point someone usually interjects "But all information comes to us through our senses therefore all information is empirical". That may be true, but the way we process that information isn't always empirical. Intuition can give true and justified results ... Or not. And unless and until you check it out against the evidence, how can you know which?
Intuition can't tell you whether a given idea is true or not, but if used properly, it does tell you whether that idea is reasonable or not. Which would be great if the world conformed to our ideas of what is "reasonable". If science has taught us one thing, it's that it doesn't. To use your "intuition" to decide what's "reasonable" and then not put it to the test of experience is the quickest and surest way to close your mind.
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granpa Member (Idle past 2367 days) Posts: 128 Joined: |
something is either reasonable or it is not. Our "ideas" have nothing to do with it
Edited by granpa, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 311 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
something is either reasonable or it is not. What do you want "reasonable" to mean?
Our "ideas" have nothing to do with it Even if we grant the proposition that "something is either reasonable or it is not", we do have different ideas of what is reasonable. And it is with ideas that intuition supplies us. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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granpa Member (Idle past 2367 days) Posts: 128 Joined: |
something is reasonable if there is a reason why it could happen
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 311 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
something is reasonable if there is a reason why it could happen So the statement "Dr A is wearing a green hat", for example, would be reasonable, because there is a reason why it could happen, but false because I am not actually wearing a green hat? Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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granpa Member (Idle past 2367 days) Posts: 128 Joined: |
as I clearly stated earlier intuition can not tell you whether something is true or not. It can only tell you whether it is a reasonable possibility or not
once you see what he is wearing then you know beyond a reasonable doubt whether its true or not Edited by granpa, : No reason given. Edited by granpa, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 311 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
as I clearly stated earlier intuition can not tell you whether something is true or not. It can only tell you whether it is a reasonable possibility or not I'm not sure how broad you intend this criterion to be. After all, there is a sense in which I might find a doorway to a magic world in the back of my wardrobe: it is a logical possibility.
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granpa Member (Idle past 2367 days) Posts: 128 Joined: |
other universes are a reasonable possibility but magic is certainly not
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 311 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Why not? After all, magic is just something that would be against the laws of our universe. They might be just as astonished by electricity as we are by their magic lamps and flying carpets.
Anyway, this aside, it's still hard to see just what you mean by "reasonable". Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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granpa Member (Idle past 2367 days) Posts: 128 Joined: |
the possibility that other universes might have different laws from our own is a reasonable possibility. But they must follow some sort of laws of cause and effect and that means it isn't magic
Edited by granpa, : No reason given.
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