Neither a theist nor an atheist

Doesn't matter... Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, etc. can all have faith in their own things. Christianity does not have a monopoly on faith. Well, look at all the geology people have teaching you because you have faith in a false Flood...

If you have evidence, why do you need faith? You don't need evidence in order to believe something is true. There is no such thing as personal evidence. When we say evidence, we meen objective evidence that is independent of a single subjective experience. If they are unseen or undetectable, then you have no evidence.You are so twisted around that you are defining evidence as not having evidence.Edited by Taq, : No reason given.Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

One is inductive and the other is deductive.

I think that is true, depending on what you consider an 'entity'. I am sure we will disagree about what constitutes an 'entity' I don't think this devil, demons, angels, imps, jinn, or all that stuff exists.On the other hand, televangelists ,and tea party members do exist

The evidence is of the reality of God and His character and the inspired nature of the Bible, but just believing those things isn't the point, there's a whole message of life and salvation I have to believe and trust in in order to live it, Jesus as my savior who died for me so that I could have eternal life. Life changes when you come to believe, everything changes. You go from one life to another and you live the new life entirely by faith in the revelation about it. The witness evidence gives you reason to trust it, then you live it on faith. Oh it's completely objective, I'm far from the only one it proves itself to. You recognize it or you don't. Plenty do, many more don't. The evidence is the basis for the faith in things unseen. If you simply refuse to believe there could be anything unseen of any worth then all the evidence there is won't lead you there. You closed the door yourself.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I think there's plenty of "worth" in the Bible and faith in God for some people. Perhaps you are one of those people.I just don't see (or "unsee") any unique "worth" in the Bible or faith in God.For some people, their faith fills them with a sense of confidence... a never ending source of motivation and will power and spiritual fulfillment.These are all fantastic traits, and I think that those who find such things in their faith should continue their faith for the full support it provides.The problem, though... is that people are different.
And you can say that "the Bible is for everyone!" all you'd like. It doesn't change the simple, observable facts that this is completely incorrect.For some people, the Bible cannot provide any "worth."
For some people, faith is powerless and doesn't provide any worth either.This doesn't mean "they're doing it wrong" and they're shutting the door. This is possible, but not necessarily correct. It's also quite possible that people can be honest and just different from you and just not get anything from the Bible and faith in God.They are quite capable of finding that same "worth," though. Just through different means... because they're different from you.Theists can find that worth by different means.
Atheists can find that worth by different means.
Neither theists nor atheists can also find that worth by different means.The thing is... people are all different. It's such a simple, obvious fact that I'm surprised it's forgotten so often.
One thing just plain doesn't work for everybody for anything at all simply because people are different.
We all run into this everyday for pretty much everything we ever do.Do we all drive the same car? No. Because we're different.
Do we all like the same foods? No. Because we're different.
Do we all talk the same way? Walk the same way? Breathe the same way? No. Because we're different.Taking these things into account, is it really any surprise that people feel in different ways and think in different ways?
I understand it's not quite as obvious as us all having different facial features. But, seriously, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that people who like different kinds of ice-cream may think about things in different ways.That "worth" is different for each of us because of the differences in our intellectual processes simply because we're different people.That doesn't make you right and me wrong, or the other way around. It's just acknowledging the fact that we are, indeed, different.The same nothing-else-compares sense of love and support and empowerment you get from faith can be obtained through other means for people who do not "connect" with faith as you do.Some find it in the confidence of science.
Some find it in the mysteries of the universe.
Some find it in the doubt that pervades all of our abilities to understand anything.
Some find it in God.
Some find it in their relationships (children or family or friends).The thing is... for it to really be "worth" for a person, that person needs to understand themselves and make sure they follow the path that aligns with their intellectual thought processes. If you just do what someone else says... you're taking a gamble that you are "the same" as that other person. Sometimes this works out (especially if you have similar backgrounds). Usually it doesn't. But if you start at the beginning... finding out who you are first and then moving on from there... then you remove the gamble.Even if God does exist. He still can't give "the most worth" to all people. He made people too different. He's made at least a few people require "no God" in order to achieve the same worth you get from your faith in God.The differences are obvious to all of us.
They are easily shrugged off and excused away or ignored, though. ("Oh, he doesn't get it because he's just weird!") Such defense mechanisms run deep in those who are not confident in their own sense of worth.

Allow me to rephrase: If you believe in them, it is possible to trust them.You can not trust what you don't believe in. What you do believe in you can choose to trust or distrust. You choose to trust your God and distrust your Satan. I choose to distrust anybody who has already destroyed the world once. That's the most evil entity I know of.Edited by zombie ringo, : Spellin.

I might point out, though that we all breathe oxygen. We all need that same substance. Perhaps Faith is arguing that this is the same way spiritually. (also assuming that there is One Spirit that is, in fact the ether that humans need.)Perhaps the point is that regardless of what people believe or feel that they want there is a common reality that is, in fact best for everyone. I can also see your counter-argument, however.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

That story allowed for 8 survivors. From those 8 we all sprung. You are just mad that God assumedly has the right to do whatever He wants.
It seems that your basic argument is that you were given the tools to know right from wrong---either by divine appointment or by evolutionary development and that you want to be responsible (and all of us as well) for the legacy that you leave in this life and that you don't want any bearded super Deity to order you around! (Even if He DID exist)Am I right?

That's quite unlike what is said in Hebrews 11:1. Which says that Faith is evidence. Elsewhere in the Bible we are told what the source of faith is. And that source is not evidence.

But WE don't "get worth," I was talking about God's having worth Himself, and His message of salvation and other "unseen things." Oh we're all different but we're all also human beings, "made in the image of God." And the Biblical revelation gives one exclusive way of salvation to all human beings.Emphasize: It does claim to be exclusive: The Bible reveals that all the religions are man-made deceptions, which often were inspired by demons. Satan is "the prince of this world" since he deceived our parents and brought about the Fall, and his army of fallen angels have ruled nations ever since. Jesus came to defeat the devil and he did defeat the devil but we have to choose Him over the devil still: If God has ordained only one way to salvation, choosing any other way is a terrible deception to avoid at all costs.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Faith is the evidence of things unseen, it's the faculty by which we know the things of the Spirit of God, but we firstl have to have evidence of the reality and nature of God to be willing to invest our faith in Him and His Biblical revelation, and that's what a lot of the Bible is for: to give us the evidence so that we can believe and come to the faith that is the evidence of things unseen.John writes toward the end of his gospel that he could have written much more but what he did write he wrote "so that you may believe," clearly meaning he was giving us the evidence on which we could believe: Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Faith just quoted John 14 to you, and there's no reason to discuss the Bible with her, so I thought I'd share some more of that chapter with you:

quote:

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John 14:11 (NIV)

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11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

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12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

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So I think you're on the right track. Don't pay attention to the "Christians" who aren't evidencing their faith through their works.

Oh well since you aren't talking to me I'll address this to Stile:What CS just said to you and not to me includes that you MUST BELIEVE IN JESUS. "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN ME..." He also included the part that says there is evidence to help you believe in Him, the WORKS HE HAS DONE>Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I would, actually, agree that we all need to develop our spiritual side, as we all need to develop our ability to breathe. It's not so much a counter-argument as it is a larger explanation... going from small-scope to large-scope.I'm not trying to say that faith should be countered in any way. That is also wrong in my opinion.
I'm trying to say that "faith in God is the only way to be spiritual" is limiting yourself to a small-scope... wearing horse-blinders.It's obvious to everyone that many, many people are very spiritual without any faith in God.Move from the small-scope into the large-scope.
Faith in God is not the only way to be spiritual.
Breathing through your mouth is not the only way to breathe.You can breathe through your nose, you can do it loudly, you can do it quietly... find what works best for you in whatever situation you find yourself in.You can build your spiritual nature in many different ways as well.
You can use faith in God.
You can use faith in Allah.
You can use faith in whatever you think will be useful.
You can forget about faith entirely and use evidence and feedback (science) to guide your spiritual development.
You can focus on the mysteries of the universe.
You can lose yourself in a good comic-book story.
You can spend quality time with family or friends.
You can help out people you don't know.
You can post anonymously on message boards you find interesting.
(I hope you get the point that this list can go on...)There is no single, specific "right way and wrong way" for everyone in general.However, there definitely is a "right way and wrong way" for you, personally.If you do what someone else tells you to do... you're gambling that "the right way for you" will be the same as it is for them.
If you search your own feelings and find out what makes you tick... you can help make sure you're on the right path towards the best spiritual development you're capable of. Except, of course, for the obvious and clear facts staring us all in the face that prove beyond any shadow of any doubt that people are different and one thing actually does not work for everyone.You can say differently all you like, but all anyone has to do is step into any public space to see that people are different and "one thing will work for everyone" is nothing more than a crude attempt at over-simplification.Have you ever been to a funeral? Is everyone crying?
Have you ever been to a wedding? Is everyone cheering?Yes, we all have a spiritual side.
But, no, we can't all develop it in the same way. We're just all too different. This fact is only up for debate if you ignore everyone who is different from you...I understand the desire for all of us to be the same. It's much simpler and easier to understand.
But wanting things to be simple doesn't stop humans from being complicated beings.Children understand this point quite readily. It's adults who teach them otherwise. When did you lose your ability to identify and celebrate the differences in your fellow brethren?