Debunking Annihilationism

But therein lies the problem Faith. What exactly is the demarcation between the Stalins and the Hitlers versus the kind old college professor who didn't believe in god but lived a humble life and didn't hurt anyone? Yet he will burn in eternal hellfire because he dared to use his cerebral cortex and think critically. Guess that notion is as evil as mass murder to the god of the Bible.And frankly, salivating at the fact that the Hitlers and Stalins will be suffering in agony for all eternity is sadistic to the Nth degree. Look at how we, as humans, judged the Nazis at Nuremburg post-war. Were any of their punishments cruel to that level? The fact that we, in the here and now, can exercise more compassion and justice than what some supreme being can allegedly muster is pretty telling.

As I said the punishment will fit the crime. You seem to believe otherwise. I believe there are many degrees of Hell, I think scripture indicates that. The punishment will fit the crime.And nobody said anything about "salivating" over the punishment of the wicked. I guess maybe the word helps to makes justice seem really evil.

"Karma," which I think of as an imperfect reflection of God's law, DOES work in our lifetime. In Proverbs it's called "the reproofs of life" I believe.God gives opportunity for repentance too you know, and is said to be very longsuffering in giving the wicked a great deal of time to repent, and repentance is the true version of rehabilitation. But if a person hasn't repented before death you think they don't deserve justice for their crimes?

I'd go so far as to say that even some of their victims wouldn't want to see them in eternal torment. The Jews don't believe in eternal torment, after all; their God is more humane than yours.

Today's Jews are like the Pharisees in Jesus' day, they got their scriptures all wrong about a lot of things. Those who believed the Old Testament and became followers of Jesus believed in eternal torment.

It's today's Jews we're talking about, the victims who don't want to see their tormentors tormented.Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.If you do unto your tormentors as they did unto you, you're no better than they are.

I'm not the one doing the punishing. I'm to pray for my enemies; vengeance is God's.He gives time to repent, and I asked what if they don't? I guess you're fine with letting them off the hook.And as I said, today's Jews get their own scriptures all wrong. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

How well did it work on your examples, Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot? If it worked, there would be no need for eternal torment. As I said, no decent person would consider eternal torment to be justice. Besides, you don't really believe that repentance is enough, do you? A person who never hurt anybody but doesn't believe what you believe is going to get the same eternal pnishment as the Hitlers, the Stalins and the Pol Pots, isn't he?

Then god needs to take some antipsychotics and get therapy.

Indeed I am, if the alternative is eternal torment. You're losing the plot. Todays Jews don't favour eternal torment. The victims don't favour eternal torment. You condone it; they don't.If your take on the scriptures is right, then it's the scriptures that are wrong, not the principle of humanity and decency.

I didn't say people always benefit from the instruction of the reproofs of life, just that it ["karma" or "the reproofs of life"] is always in operation and you have the opportunity to learn from it. But some are too hardened and will go to their death without repentance. Free will you know. If the reproofs of life "worked" inexorably you'd all be complaining that means we don't have free will. No, as I said I believe there are degrees of Hell, meaning degrees of punishment in the afterlife. And I have no idea what sort of punishment anyone is going to get, scripture is not clear about that. I'm guessing for the sake of discussion that those who have committed great crimes against humanity will get the worst but I don't even know who is the worst, it's just a guess.Also, you have no idea whether eternal torment is just or not, you think your own feelings are sufficient to judge such things. I can't judge them either but I do believe that if God requires it justice will be served by it, and to exactness, whether I can see it now or not. It has to do with the infinite character of the God against whom we sin, and our own immortality, neither of which we have any feeling for in this life. But we see through a glass darkly while we're here, all this will become glaringly obvious to us in the end.Why not work for people to repent rather than sit and stew over the judgments God has determined? Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Oh but I do get it, and they are wrong about their scriptures as I said, that's all. I don't have any great hunger to see people suffer eternal torment at all (I cringe at the thought of Hell myself, would do whatever I can to spare people), I'm merely arguing in the abstract that God's justice is going to be perfect no matter what we think or feel.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I don't think "free will" is a useful concept. All I was saying about karma is that a sensible god would make it work inexorably in this life instead of going psycho after death. Nonsense. There is no "justice" in punishing people who don't understand their crimes. I'm working right now for you to repent.Why aren't you appealing to your god to have a heart?

You're still missing the point. Assuming that you are right about the scriptures, the scriptures are wrong. Either they are not depicting God accurately or God is not worthy of us.

So you don't know what God's saying "vengeance is Mine" means. It means I'm not the judge, you're not the judge, human beings are not to exact vengeance; we are to leave that up to God.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.