Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 85 (8924 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 08-17-2019 8:43 AM
24 online now:
kjsimons, Tangle (2 members, 22 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Jedothek
Post Volume:
Total: 859,832 Year: 14,868/19,786 Month: 1,591/3,058 Week: 369/868 Day: 8/70 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev1
2
Author Topic:   Religious Films
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3633
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 16 of 30 (858522)
07-21-2019 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by a servant of Christ
07-20-2019 11:26 PM


Having waded in both waters, you might appreciate this anecdote.

First, we note that Catholic churches are known for being ornate with rather elaborate and even graphic artwork, whereas Protestant churches are fairly devote of artwork even to the point of leaning towards abstract forms. One convincing theory is that Catholic art is actually teaching, that when Catholics did not have access to Bibles (pre-Gutenberg books were relatively rare and prohibitively expensive, most lay people never learned to read, church policy discouraged or prohibited reading the Bible yourself) the artwork would act to remind you of the stories and teachings you have been told. The Protestant Reformation started with Gutenberg, a lot of the earliest printing projects were Bibles, and basic Protestant doctrine is for you to study the Bible. A primary purpose of the early Sunday Schools was to teach adult members how to read so that they could read the Bible. Protestant churches no longer needed all that artwork to remind them of Bible teachings, because all they had to do to remind themselves was to open the book.

Whatever the actual reason was, one of the most marked differences in church decor is a Catholic church's graphic crucifix with Jesus nailed upon it and a Protestant church's very plain and unadorned cross. That difference factors into the story.

Here's the story:

quote:
My ex-wife's best friend for years was Protestant while her husband was Catholic. He continued to attend Catholic church and she a Protestant one. They had two sons and would take turns taking one of them to either church, so both boys grew up attending both churches.

One day in the middle of mass, the younger son suddenly looked at the crucifix, apparently noticing it for the first time in years, and shouting out to his father, "Dad! Who's that guy hanging up there?" Right in the middle of mass for the entire congregation to hear.

Needless to say, that was the last time that son went to a Catholic service.


True story.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by a servant of Christ, posted 07-20-2019 11:26 PM a servant of Christ has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by AZPaul3, posted 07-21-2019 12:39 PM dwise1 has not yet responded
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 07-21-2019 2:57 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4380
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 17 of 30 (858524)
07-21-2019 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by dwise1
07-21-2019 12:01 PM


one of the most marked differences in church decor is a Catholic church's graphic crucifix with Jesus nailed upon it and a Protestant church's very plain and unadorned cross.

Not decor. Small addition.

The Catholics keep Jesus on the cross as a symbol emphasizing his sacrifice to humanity while the Protestants took Jesus down from the cross as a symbol emphasizing his resurrection.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by dwise1, posted 07-21-2019 12:01 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by a servant of Christ, posted 07-21-2019 8:19 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17138
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 18 of 30 (858541)
07-21-2019 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by dwise1
07-21-2019 12:01 PM


Two anecdotes:

  1. The church I used to attend received the gift of a portrait of Jesus, painted by one of the parishioners. There was some discussion among the elders about the appropriateness of displaying an image in the church, even if it was an image of the Savior. Finally, the pastor announced to the congregation that in appreciation of the gift, it would be hung - but in the church office instead of in a more public place.

  2. The (Mennonite) church that my mother grew up in used to have the words, "We preach Christ crucified," above the choir. At some point, it was changed to, "We preach Christ." I never knew why.


All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by dwise1, posted 07-21-2019 12:01 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
a servant of Christ
Member
Posts: 1681
Joined: 01-12-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 19 of 30 (858555)
07-21-2019 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by AZPaul3
07-21-2019 12:39 PM


technically roman catholicism uses both, but having the crucified christ is essential in establishing the importance of living a sacificial life, one not borne of personal excess.

the "happy christian" stereotype of modern evangelicals where god is a magical panacea and all opposers to them are demonic is not necessarily christian.

jim caviezel did a good talk about how the life of the christian is one largely of suffering

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9z-dMQjRBE

Edited by messenjaH of oNe, : No reason given.

Edited by messenjaH of oNe, : No reason given.

Edited by messenjaH of oNe, : No reason given.

Edited by messenjaH of oNe, : No reason given.

Edited by messenjaH of oNe, : No reason given.

Edited by messenjaH of oNe, : No reason given.

Edited by messenjaH of oNe, : No reason given.

Edited by messenjaH of oNe, : No reason given.

Edited by messenjaH of oNe, : No reason given.

Edited by messenjaH of oNe, : No reason given.

Edited by messenjaH of oNe, : No reason given.

Edited by messenjaH of oNe, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by AZPaul3, posted 07-21-2019 12:39 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2887
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 20 of 30 (858719)
07-23-2019 10:17 AM


Brother Sun Sister Moon

This movie made a huge impact on 10 year old me.
I did not quite understand it but never forgot it. Later in life I watched it again and
enjoyed it very much. It is wonderfully shot and is entertaining. Some of these old 70's films are fantastic! I recommend.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by a servant of Christ, posted 07-23-2019 6:47 PM 1.61803 has not yet responded

  
a servant of Christ
Member
Posts: 1681
Joined: 01-12-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 21 of 30 (858793)
07-23-2019 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by 1.61803
07-23-2019 10:17 AM


Re: Brother Sun Sister Moon
this looks great thanks
This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by 1.61803, posted 07-23-2019 10:17 AM 1.61803 has not yet responded

  
a servant of Christ
Member
Posts: 1681
Joined: 01-12-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 22 of 30 (859112)
07-28-2019 2:49 PM


Andrei Tarkovsky
The greatest filmmaker of all-time was a Christian

quote:
My discovery of Tarkovsky's first film was like a miracle. Suddenly, I found myself standing at the door of a room the keys of which had until then, never been given to me. It was a room I had always wanted to enter and where he was moving freely and fully at ease. I felt encountered and stimulated: someone was expressing what I had always wanted to say without knowing how. Tarkovsky is for me the greatest, the one who invented a new language, true to the nature of film, as it captures life as a reflection, life as a dream-bergman

quote:
Perhaps the meaning of all human activity lies in the artistic consciousness, in the pointless and selfless creative act? Perhaps our capacity to create is evidence that we ourselves were created in the image and likeness of God?

tarkovsky

Edited by messenjaH of oNe, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Faith, posted 07-29-2019 6:30 PM a servant of Christ has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32605
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 23 of 30 (859201)
07-29-2019 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by a servant of Christ
07-28-2019 2:49 PM


Re: Andrei Tarkovsky
I went on a Tarkovsky binge a few years ago, but I didn't know he was a Christian.

Weird: ever since that binge whenever I hear a dog barking in the far distance I think of his films.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by a servant of Christ, posted 07-28-2019 2:49 PM a servant of Christ has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by dwise1, posted 07-29-2019 7:38 PM Faith has responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3633
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 24 of 30 (859227)
07-29-2019 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Faith
07-29-2019 6:30 PM


Re: Andrei Tarkovsky
Tarkovsky ... , but I didn't know he was a Christian.

Sorry. Russian Orthodox. Actual orthodox, not your imagined orthodox. And the wrong kind of Christian for your liking.

For that matter, do you even consider the Orthodox churches to be Christian? It can be so difficult for outsiders to keep fundie beliefs straight.

ABE:

When working with foreign films, especially ones more foreign as is the case with Russian film, it can be difficult to tell what is due to the director's unique perspective and what just comes from that national genre.

For example, we had briefly discussed Hermann Hesse's Das Glasperlenspiel ("The Glass Bead Game", AKA "Magister Ludi"). Hesse's work is generally introspective and Das Glasperlenspiel was very much that. German literature would tend to dwell on social status keeping up appearances and the dire consequences of losing your status (eg, "Effi Briest" and "Der Blaue Engel" with Marlene Dietrich). Then post-war literature and later film would dwell on youth coming of age and feeling no connection with society rejecting their parents' lifestyle (eg, "A Coffee in Berlin", which is no longer on Netflix USA).

Point is that the genre can dictate a lot. What I've seen of Russian film has tended to be atmospheric and brooding (eg, "Трудно быть богом", no longer on Netflix, "Hard to be a God", though I had read it in the German translation, "Es ist nicht leicht ein Gott zu sein" (I was surprised decades later when I stumbled upon the English translation in a used book store). Even though I still knew the story, the Russian movie was so heavily atmospheric that I simply could not slog through it, kind of like Solaris must have been for most Americans, only much much worse.

A friend in college started reading Tolstoy and what she really noticed was the banquet scenes in which Tolstoy would get into very intimate detail about the food and how it had been prepared.

So was Tarkovsky's work uniquely his, or was it very Russian? Maybe both.

Edited by dwise1, : ABE


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Faith, posted 07-29-2019 6:30 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Faith, posted 07-30-2019 1:22 PM dwise1 has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32605
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 25 of 30 (859288)
07-30-2019 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by dwise1
07-29-2019 7:38 PM


Re: Andrei Tarkovsky
I vaguely recall that Tarkovsky didn't work in Russia, went to some other country to make his films. Possibly Sweden? He's been compared to Ingmar Bergman. Yes I think they speak Swedish in his films, certainly not Russian.

ABE: Wikipedia says he worked in Italy on a couple films and did "The Sacrifice" in Sweden, that he vowed never to return to the Soviet Union.

"Orthodox" is a simple English word that means "Right or true teaching," just as the word "catholic" means "universal." Just because some organization uses a word in its title doesn't mean it's been taken out of circulation and nobody else can use it.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by dwise1, posted 07-29-2019 7:38 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by dwise1, posted 07-30-2019 1:45 PM Faith has responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3633
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 26 of 30 (859294)
07-30-2019 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Faith
07-30-2019 1:22 PM


Re: Andrei Tarkovsky
I vaguely recall that Tarkovsky didn't work in Russia, went to some other country to make his films. Possibly Sweden?

Nope! From Wikipedia:

quote:
He directed the first five of his seven feature films in the Soviet Union; his last two films, Nostalghia (1983) and The Sacrifice (1986), were produced in Italy and Sweden respectively.

I had only seen Solaris and, having studied Russian, I would have noticed if they weren't speaking Russian.

"Orthodox" is a simple English word that means "Right or true teaching," just as the word "catholic" means "universal." Just because some organization uses a word in its title doesn't mean it's been taken out of circulation and nobody else can use it.

I was pointing out that, being Russian Orthodox, your attitude of non-Protestants not of the "correct" sects would be that they are not Christians. That is certainly what I've heard from a great number of fundies.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Faith, posted 07-30-2019 1:22 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 07-30-2019 1:58 PM dwise1 has not yet responded
 Message 28 by Faith, posted 07-30-2019 1:59 PM dwise1 has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32605
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 27 of 30 (859298)
07-30-2019 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by dwise1
07-30-2019 1:45 PM


Re: Andrei Tarkovsky
I don't know enough about the Orthodox churches to have an opinion about their teaching. I know the papal system is pagan and not Christian although I also know that individual Catholics may be Christians. The same may be true for the Orthodox but as I said I don't know enough about their official doctrine.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by dwise1, posted 07-30-2019 1:45 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32605
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 28 of 30 (859299)
07-30-2019 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by dwise1
07-30-2019 1:45 PM


Re: Andrei Tarkovsky
I may not have seen Solaris.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by dwise1, posted 07-30-2019 1:45 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by dwise1, posted 07-30-2019 2:26 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3633
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 29 of 30 (859300)
07-30-2019 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Faith
07-30-2019 1:59 PM


Re: Andrei Tarkovsky
If you try to find the movie, Solaris, to watch, keep in mind that Tarkovsky's version is from 1972. There was a US remake in 2002 starring George Clooney, which wouldn't be the one you'd want.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Faith, posted 07-30-2019 1:59 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
a servant of Christ
Member
Posts: 1681
Joined: 01-12-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 30 of 30 (859489)
07-31-2019 10:05 PM


i can't hack Andrei Rublev, but Stalker definitely saved my life.

i might try the sacrifice tonight


  
Prev1
2
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019