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Author Topic:   Growing the Geologic Column
Coyote
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 16 of 740 (733681)
07-20-2014 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Faith
07-20-2014 12:25 AM


Here is a link to the geological stratigraphy of the Olduvai Gorge in Africa.

http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/...re/OlduvaiForm/7_Chronology.html

And here is one chart from that essay:

Note the intermixture of volcanic and sedimentary layers.

Now stop with the nonsense that volcanic layers don't form a part of these various geologic columns!

Edited by Admin, : Change image background to white.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 07-20-2014 12:25 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by JonF, posted 07-20-2014 10:03 AM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 28 of 740 (733755)
07-21-2014 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
07-20-2014 11:37 PM


There is no way to have an honest discussion with somebody who acts as you do.

Pot, meet kettle!

It is very difficult for us to have an honest discussion with you when, by your own admission, you feel free to ignore any evidence that does not confirm your religions beliefs, you change definitions from those which have been worked out by science over decades or centuries because they don't fit your beliefs, you just make things up as you go, and you have shown that you are approaching things exactly opposite from the scientific method. And to make it worse, you don't even agree with most other creationists!

"An Army Of One" was the slogan of the US Army, but you seem to be trying to take it over from them.

And you think this makes it easy for us to discuss these things with you? Gimmi a break!

You should be thankful we're as polite as we have been.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 07-20-2014 11:37 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 85 of 740 (733902)
07-22-2014 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Faith
07-22-2014 7:54 PM


Re: Mt. Pinatubo is Proof Positive
...you'd rather make up your own idea of geologic columns and claim to defeat it with a bunch of irrelevancies.

You're channeling yourself!

Why is it that you can't accept some very basic scientific facts when they are shown to you? Its not as if this stuff is difficult.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Faith, posted 07-22-2014 7:54 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Faith, posted 07-22-2014 8:28 PM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 105 of 740 (733926)
07-22-2014 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Faith
07-22-2014 9:11 PM


Re: Mt. Pinatubo is Proof Positive
Again you post a totally incomprehensible empty opinion. What do you expect me to do with that sort of stuff?

A lot of posters have been presenting you with facts.

Facts that you don't like, you dismiss as opinion, as not being "TRVE" science, or you just ignore.

All I can do is ignore it, it relates to nothing in my own memory or experience and I have NO interest in tracking anything down in this benighted mess of a thread.

Ignoring something does not make it go away! Those facts that you don't like are still out there.

Remember that in science a single unruly fact can cause a theory to be reevaluated and maybe overturned. Scientists can't ignore facts that dispute their theories, as can apologists.

That fact that some evidence relates to nothing in your memory or experience is no reason to ignore it! It will still be there though you hide your head under the covers and pretend it never happened.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Faith, posted 07-22-2014 9:11 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Faith, posted 07-22-2014 9:43 PM Coyote has responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 108 of 740 (733933)
07-22-2014 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Faith
07-22-2014 9:43 PM


Re: Mt. Pinatubo is Proof Positive
I wish EvC had a feature that would allow me to just scrawl a big red X through a miserably misquided post like yours.

You'd just love to censure all those things that show your beliefs are incorrect, wouldn't you?

There has been so much evidence presented in this thread concerning the geological column that you'd just like to X out, but you do the next best thing--you pretend it doesn't exist.

In this, you once again show that what you do is the exact opposite of science. Scientists must deal with the evidence, religious apologists just "magic" it away.

It really puzzles me--what harm to your beliefs can it do to have a mix of sedimentary and volcanic layers in the geo. column in various places? That's what the evidence shows, so isn't it just something you should accept rather than make up excuse after excuse why you don't agree?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Faith, posted 07-22-2014 9:43 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Faith, posted 07-23-2014 12:32 AM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 155 of 740 (734132)
07-26-2014 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Faith
07-26-2014 1:50 AM


Re: dating by magma sills and dikes
http://www.tulane.edu/~sanelson/eens1110/geotime.htm

Read and learn.

It has come to the point where it is useless to write you lengthy posts explaining things, as you don't read them.

So, just links. And that's more than you deserve.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Faith, posted 07-26-2014 1:50 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Faith, posted 07-26-2014 2:19 AM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 256 of 740 (734300)
07-27-2014 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by JonF
07-27-2014 8:11 PM


There's a lesson to be learned from that if one were interested in learning.

My signature addresses that:

quote:
Belief gets in the way of learning.

And Faith is the poster child for that.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by JonF, posted 07-27-2014 8:11 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 305 of 740 (734370)
07-28-2014 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by Faith
07-28-2014 12:38 PM


Re: New depositions strangely different from old strata
Deposition by the Flood, which is how all the thick rock slabs everywhere were formed.

Even the volcanic ones?

Hmmmm. A lot of geologists are going to surprised to learn this.

On the other hand, have you ever considered that you are delusional and they are correct?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by Faith, posted 07-28-2014 12:38 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by Faith, posted 07-28-2014 1:41 PM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 335 of 740 (734406)
07-28-2014 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 334 by Faith
07-28-2014 9:29 PM


Re: Order of events as shown on cross sections
Anyone who can't see the evidence for the Flood in the miles-deep sedimentary strata and their fossil contents has no appreciation of what evidence is.

Those strata date to vastly different time periods.

This shows your beliefs are wrong.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by Faith, posted 07-28-2014 9:29 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 336 by Faith, posted 07-28-2014 9:33 PM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 348 of 740 (734424)
07-29-2014 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 345 by Faith
07-28-2014 11:33 PM


Re: Bible
There never was another "apologetics," that was just someone's made-up accusation. And this isn't apologetics either, I'm getting interrogated so I'm answering the questions I'm asked. Maybe if I answer them enough they'll stop asking them.

Sure you're doing apologetics. Pure apologetics!

You certainly aren't doing science, since you reject evidence, the scientific method, and any scientific findings that contradict your ancient tribal myths.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 345 by Faith, posted 07-28-2014 11:33 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 367 of 740 (734447)
07-29-2014 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 366 by JonF
07-29-2014 10:18 AM


Re: Flood timing
I think that the problem is that, rather than identifying one point in time (e.g., the P-T boundary or the K-T boundary) as the date of the flood, Faith is attributing all sedimentary layers to the flood.

This would explain the need for having the volcanic layers intrusive, or for ignoring them completely.

Typical creation "science:" it ignores or misrepresents all the evidence necessary in order to arrive at the required (biblical) conclusion.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by JonF, posted 07-29-2014 10:18 AM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 368 by JonF, posted 07-29-2014 11:03 AM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 378 of 740 (734469)
07-30-2014 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 377 by Faith
07-30-2014 12:16 AM


Re: Order of events as shown on cross sections
As long as you say there is no evidence for the Flood you are obviously misunderstanding the evidence. How all the strata and the fossils aren't sufficient evidence I can't fathom.

That's the problem right there. You won't allow yourself to understand the data that shows your beliefs are wrong. You are one of the most clear-cut cases of self-imposed ignorance I've ever encountered.

Just because they can be interpreted other ways, to fit into the Old Earth/ evolutionist scenario, doesn't make them any the less clear evidence for the Flood. It's just a matter of how you choose to understand it.

Not all "interpretations" are of equal validity. Some are outright nonsense. Astrology and belief in a global flood are two examples.

In itself it's terrific evidence for the Flood.

The actual evidence is terrific evidence against the biblical version of the flood. You just can't allow yourself to see it--it might just shake up your beliefs.

Since you don't accept real world evidence, as you have admitted many times, you have no business telling scientists who have studied these subjects for decades that they are wrong: you're the flea telling the dog where to go.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 377 by Faith, posted 07-30-2014 12:16 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 380 by Faith, posted 07-30-2014 12:53 AM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 382 of 740 (734473)
07-30-2014 12:55 AM
Reply to: Message 379 by Faith
07-30-2014 12:47 AM


Re: igneous layers
What I'm trying to figure out now is what those completely different layers you are all talking about -- the predominantly volcanic layers interspersed with some sedimentary layers -- represent in relation to my idea of the Geologic Column.

They show that your idea of the Geologic Column and most everything else concerning a global flood is wrong.

You go wrong by trying to shoehorn the data into an odd biblical interpretation, and the data do not fit. That's why you have to keep coming up with these odd ideas--unsupported by the real world evidence.

What I don't understand is why you spend so much time here. You aren't convincing us of the validity of your beliefs--much the opposite. Are you just here to convince yourself?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by Faith, posted 07-30-2014 12:47 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 386 by Faith, posted 07-30-2014 1:01 AM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 430 of 740 (734525)
07-30-2014 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 410 by Faith
07-30-2014 4:37 AM


Re: Order of events as shown on cross sections
Huge limestone rocks.
Bazillions of fossils all over the world.

But the rock layers are dated to a span of millions to hundreds of millions of years, not one year.

This dating is generally done by use of the volcanic layers in between the sedimentary rocks. Again, they show a long time frame.

We also get dating by the fossils in the sedimentary rocks, which show many species--indeed whole genera and families--develop and disappear, one after the other. This shows a time frame of millions to hundreds of millions of years, not one year.

In other words, the strata you are relying on as evidence for a global flood shows the exact opposite, and shows an old earth as well.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by Faith, posted 07-30-2014 4:37 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 461 of 740 (734572)
07-30-2014 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 460 by Faith
07-30-2014 8:57 PM


Re: The interlayered depositions, Alaska etc
There is no way to convince anybody of anything here.

All you need is evidence to convince people. What you have presented as evidence has not been accepted because real-world evidence contradicts it.

ALL the layers are consistent with Flood deposits with very few exceptions.

That is assertion based on old tribal myth, not evidence. And that assertion is contradicted by real-world evidence.

The fact that the layers exist at all as they do is GLARING evidence for the Flood, as is the staggering numbers of fossils.

Staggering 100% wrong. The evidence shows those layers are separated by hundreds of millions of years. It also is clear that those fossils show the development, maturity, and death of species, genera, and whole families of organisms--which could not have happened in a single year. So the evidence you accept as proving a flood is exactly the evidence which proves such a flood could not have done what you say it did.

Nobody will accept that, so they certainly aren't going to accept anything I say about a particular layer.

You are correct. Your stories about geology and most of the rest of science are "just-so" stories. They bear no resemblance to what scientists have actually discovered. In fact, they are contradicted by the real-world evidence.

They'll just trot out their ridiculous stories about what happened in the era the rock represents based on the fossil contents.

Scientists have to work with explanations based on real-world evidence. Apologists are the exact opposite.

I'll fall asleep and later get back to my basic arguments.

Don't bother. We've heard them all before and they failed then. Why just keep repeating failed arguments? To convince yourself? Because you certainly are not convincing anyone else.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 460 by Faith, posted 07-30-2014 8:57 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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