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Author Topic:   Burials
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(4)
Message 76 of 94 (736580)
09-11-2014 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Faith
09-10-2014 4:13 PM


Faith writes:
"Going on forever" as just a clod of dirt that is "part of a greater whole" of more dirt, is a pretty denigrated view of humanity and what's weird is that you don't seem to know it.
quote:
We are stardust
We are golden
And we've got to get ourselves
Back to the garden
-- Joni Mitchell
That isn't denigrating, it's uplifting. Trust you to argue that up is down.
Faith writes:
While you're lying there being trod upon or whatever your fate may be as that clod, will you be contemplating your fate as a clod of dirt?
quote:
Don’t think of it as dust. Just think of it as the dirt and dust of far-off lands blowing over here and settling on Pig-Pen! It staggers the imagination! He may be carrying the soil that was trod upon by Solomon or Nebuchadnezzar or Genghis Khan!
-- Charlie Brown

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Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 77 of 94 (736587)
09-11-2014 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by ringo
09-11-2014 12:07 PM


Reuse, Recycle. Repurpose.
Pig Pen contains actual atoms from "Solomon or Nebuchadnezzar or Genghis Khan!"
Jesus, too.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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Replies to this message:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


(2)
Message 78 of 94 (736631)
09-11-2014 4:48 PM


My mother, who just turned 88, and is likely to outlive us all, said she wants a 'green funeral'. No embalming, and basically put in the earth in a biodegradable
bag with an ummarked grave underneath a tree. There are some 'green funeral cemetries opening up where no grave marker, but they can bury you with a little rfid ball so people can locate your body if they want to with the proper equipment.
She basically doesn't want the embalming fluids to pollute the environment.
My father, who is deceased, when asked 'how should we handle your funeral' said 'Surprise me'

Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 79 of 94 (736634)
09-11-2014 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by ramoss
09-11-2014 4:48 PM


My grandpa died earlier this year and he wanted to be cremated simply because it was cheaper than a burial.
Grandma died last year and she wanted to be buried because she was afraid of being burnt up.
To each their own.

This message is a reply to:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 80 of 94 (736642)
09-11-2014 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Faith
09-11-2014 9:43 AM


Faith writes:
ABE: I guess you think I'm discussing it from a theologicial point of view after saying I wasn't. I don't think so. Just mentioning one theological opinion isn't making a theological issue of the whole thing.
As you correctly, but belatedly, noticed, you produced a theological argument but said you hadn't. That's normal for you, you forget what you've said as soon as you've said it then have to invent an explanation when it's pointed out to you.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Faith, posted 09-11-2014 9:43 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 81 of 94 (736644)
09-11-2014 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Tangle
09-11-2014 6:53 PM


tangle, the point was that the thrust of my argument is not theological and that has never changed. Theological arguments enter into this so I commented on one of them but that is not the position from which I have been arguing. Sheesh.

This message is a reply to:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 82 of 94 (736668)
09-11-2014 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Omnivorous
09-11-2014 12:43 PM


Re: Reuse, Recycle. Repurpose.
Solomon and Jesus are myths.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 83 of 94 (736669)
09-11-2014 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Theodoric
09-11-2014 10:01 PM


Re: Reuse, Recycle. Repurpose.
Perhaps.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 84 of 94 (736673)
09-12-2014 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by xongsmith
09-11-2014 2:13 AM


silly stuff snipped.
I appreciate the detail. I think we can still say that bodies end up as worm food after we bury them and that pretending that they don't is not really a way of showing respect.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 85 of 94 (736680)
09-12-2014 1:55 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by NoNukes
09-12-2014 12:16 AM


Like I said, it's a matter of psychological impressions, symbolism, not actuality. Treating the body respectfully by laying it in a box rather than burning it to ashes just seems more respectful, that's all. People need a sense that the dead are being treated well by US, by society, by the culture; what happens to it after that isn't the point. However, I also conceded that there's no necessary lack of respect in cremation, depends on how it's done and what people have in their minds about death.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 86 of 94 (736700)
09-12-2014 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Faith
09-12-2014 1:55 AM


People need a sense that the dead are being treated well by US, by society, by the culture; what happens to it after that isn't the point.
Why do you feel you get to be the arbiter of what being "treated well" means. The best way to treat my body well is to return it back to nature where it belongs.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Faith, posted 09-12-2014 1:55 AM Faith has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 87 of 94 (736703)
09-12-2014 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Theodoric
09-12-2014 10:33 AM


Since when is giving an opinion making oneself an "arbiter"? Just getting the opinion across is like pulling teeth around here but that's all it is, an opinion. I would hope it's persuasive, I've tried to make it persuasive, but if it isn't for you, so what? And how do YOU get to feel you are the arbiter of what being treated well means when you say it means to "return it back to nature where it belongs?" That's just an opinion too, one I've argued does NOT convey respect for human beings, but you pronounce it as dogma.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(2)
Message 88 of 94 (736707)
09-12-2014 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Faith
09-12-2014 11:07 AM


That's just an opinion too, one I've argued does NOT convey respect for human beings, but you pronounce it as dogma.
I have always thought that it is how you treat people while they are alive that conveys respect, not how you treat their body after they are dead.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

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 Message 87 by Faith, posted 09-12-2014 11:07 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 90 by Faith, posted 09-12-2014 12:56 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 89 of 94 (736708)
09-12-2014 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Tanypteryx
09-12-2014 12:06 PM


Tanypteryx writes:
I have always thought that it is how you treat people while they are alive that conveys respect, not how you treat their body after they are dead.
Maybe retroactive guilt is the ultimate root of our funeral customs.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 90 of 94 (736716)
09-12-2014 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Tanypteryx
09-12-2014 12:06 PM


Sigh.
Please follow the argument. Why can't there be different ways of conveying respect? The subject of this thread is death, and I'm talking about how the whole culture may express respect or lack of respect for human beings by their attitude to death.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-12-2014 12:06 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-12-2014 1:07 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 92 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-12-2014 1:08 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 93 by ringo, posted 09-12-2014 1:11 PM Faith has not replied

  
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