Why was Adam exempt from the transgression when the transgression was disobedience?

1.61803Thanks. Please see message 11.Regards
DL

The serpent talked and was 'subtil'. But there is no evidence that it was more cunning than any man. What was so super about the serpent as to make him irresistible.

That's not correct. Eve knew the commandment, but the snake told her that fruit had an a positive affect. It turns out that the snake was actually telling the truth anyway.After hearing both the snake and God's word, Eve chose to take the snakes advice. And quite obviously Eve's act was not forgiven. What gives you the idea that it was? Your quote simply says that Eve's sin was lessor and not that it was non-existent or forgiven.And in the overall scheme of things, Adam suffering might be considered more onerous by some measures. His future life was to be filled with daily toil. Birthing pain is surely great; my wife tells me that men cannot handle it and would never have more than one child if they had to endure it. But such pain is not faced everyday. As for Eve's subordinance, how does it compare to the pre-punishment state?ABE:I suggest that you re-read the quoted verse in Timothy. What's going on is that the speaker is justifying treating women as second class citizens because of Eve's role in the garden incident.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

No. Adam and Eve did the same thing. Ignorance is no excuse. Being deceived is no excuse.

NoNukesYou are correct in that the serpent was not anything special.It could not talk and what made it irresistible that day would have been God's power either directly or through Satan being focus through it's speech and since we know that Satan was given the power to deceive the whole world, that Eve could not resist that power.That is why I say that Eve was innocent of everything.Regards
DL

NoNukes"As for Eve's subordinance, how does it compare to the pre-punishment state?"The myth shows Eve as a second thought who was created as Adams helpmeat. Whatever that is. Here is a list of synonyms.adjunct, adjutant, aid, aide, apprentice, assistant, coadjutor, deputy, helpmate, helper, lieutenant, mate, sidekick.After they ate, Adam was to rule over her and I read that as Eve being Adams slave and property as per Jewish tradition.As you can see, I do not agree that Adam's suffering might be considered more onerous by some measure.Regards
DL

ringo" Being deceived is no excuse."Not having the power to not be deceived by a supernatural entity is a perfect excuse that any judge would accept. If there could be anything supernatural that is.I reject your view completely due to that magic.Regards
DL

Neither Adam nor Eve had the power to not be deceived. They were either equally innocent or equally guilty.

During the serpent incident, Eve wasn't very much help to Adam was she? No. But you accomplish that disagreement only by not taking into account Adam's punishment. You never even mentioned it in your discussion.

ringo"Neither Adam nor Eve had the power to not be deceived. They were either equally innocent or equally guilty."I agree but God says nothing in this myth of Adam being deceived. He does say he disobeyed.Both being able to be deceived says nothing to the premise that Eve could not possibly resist and should thus be innocent of any wrongdoing.Regards
DL

NoNukes"During the serpent incident, Eve wasn't very much help to Adam was she?"I think she was.Would you eat of the tree of knowledge or would you choose to live in ignorant bliss forever?Remember that they were to dumb to even know they were naked and were never to reproduce.I think Eve was a great help.I did not mention Adams consequences because I see his being master as being so much better than Eve being his slave.Regards
DL Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.

Just to add a little to the discussion:—Ayn Rand LexiconFrom John Galt's speech, in Atlas Shrugged.

What is the nature of the guilt that your teachers call his Original Sin? What are the evils man acquired when he fell from a state they consider perfection? Their myth declares that he ate the fruit of the tree of knowledgehe acquired a mind and became a rational being. It was the knowledge of good and evilhe became a moral being. He was sentenced to earn his bread by his laborhe became a productive being. He was sentenced to experience desirehe acquired the capacity of sexual enjoyment. The evils for which they damn him are reason, morality, creativeness, joyall the cardinal values of his existence. It is not his vices that their myth of man’s fall is designed to explain and condemn, it is not his errors that they hold as his guilt, but the essence of his nature as man. Whatever he wasthat robot in the Garden of Eden, who existed without mind, without values, without labor, without lovehe was not man.

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Man’s fall, according to your teachers, was that he gained the virtues required to live. These virtues, by their standard, are his Sin. His evil, they charge, is that he’s man. His guilt, they charge, is that he lives.

So according to this argument, Adam did the right thing. Why are you complaining about his lack of punishment. If you are going to complain about who received the greater punishment, you cannot avoid talking about what happened to Adam.ABE:Let's discuss Eve's slavery. The Bible tells us that Eve was subservient to Adam, but what was her lot? To cook and clean? Adam could not make her toil in the fields as that was Adam's punishment. Exactly what do you feel was Eve's lot in life. If you want to convince that it was worse than Adams let's hear some specifics about them both.end ABEThis thread is pretty much like all of your threads. Most of the discussion is spent pointing out the flaws in your premises, and pointing out the portions of the references you've misread. Were they in fact never suppose to reproduce? Not correct? I think it would be pretty easy to show that Genesis talks about a human race before we even get to the serpent story. 1:28 is a place to start. In fact did we not deal with this in one of your previous threads? You claimed that Adam and Eve were commanded to be fruitful before they knew how. Assuming they actually did know how makes more sense and it avoids the silly argument you make here.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Surely you are simply taking poetic language literally. Too dumb not to know that they were naked? Really? Or perhaps, since clothes had not been invented the issue was merely that they were unashamed of their bodies. And likely with good reason. Their bodies were allegedly perfect images of their creator.You of course are free to read as you will. But having done so, don't expect that the writers owe you any explanation for allowing you to misread.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Edited by NoNukes, : Their vs there

Make up your mind. Are you going to accept the myth as written or not? You accept what it says about who was deceived. Why not accept what it says about God's judgement? If both were capable of being deceived then both were capable of disobeying. Both disobeyed. The reason for their disobedience - the deception or lack thereof - is irrelevant.Edited by ringo, : Spellyng.