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Author | Topic: taiji2's complaint | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
taiji2 writes: This is an obvious failure of written communication. You have read emotional response where none exists at all. Honest injun and all that. Right now I am with less emotion about the whole forum affair than I have been since the first shot was fired. You in effect invited a fellow vet to take it out to the parking lot. Who do you think you're kidding?
I am slow, but I finally realized you folks must have suspected I was some sort of christian mole out to make science look bad or something. I get it. We don't think that, and you don't get it. We think your views about evidence and knowledge are fatally flawed, and that you don't tolerate criticism very well.
Lastly, I did not read the public school thing coming into the forum. If I had, would never have posted. My mistake. Sorry Only the part between quotation marks was from the registration agreement. What I said that was in the registration agreement was, "EvC Forum hosts the debate between evolutionists and creationists." The other part where I said, "It was founded out of concern about creationism's impact on public school science education," was just some additional information for you. You can find a little more information at
EvC Forum: About This Site
.
Please chill a little. I am trying to untangle a mess. I don't really see much of a mess. The other thread (Is there a legitimate argument for design?) is ready and waiting whenever you're ready to resume discussion. --Percy
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nwr Member Posts: 6408 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Please look at my last post to Percy and give me your opinion and advice on whether I can find a thread for interesting and civil conversation.
You could try starting a thread, so that you select the topic.
the thread on proper pursuit of id has been suggested.
Some people think the world looks as if intelligently designed. Other folk disagree. Most of us aren't really concerned about such personal and private beliefs. The thing about ID, is that some religious groups are claiming that it is science and that it should get equal time in the science classroom. And they appeal to politics to try to enforce that. So it is inherently religious, political and anti-scientific, as discussed here. If you just want to discuss your personal beliefs, without religious or political overtones, then there might not be much of a discussion. It's hard to avoid the context of the political and religious public arguments over ID, when ID is your topic. Or perhaps you might do better to consider starting a blog somewhere, so that you control what is discussed. You could post a link to it here (or not). You are probably correct that this is not an appropriate site for the kind of discussion that you wanted. However, your characterization of this site is way off. (And yes, I have been mainly lurking recently).Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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taiji2 Member (Idle past 3462 days) Posts: 124 From: Georgia, USA Joined: |
Thanks for the clarification on the site.
I agree it is not where I need to be. Wow, such emotional turmoil everywhere. When Percy recovers himself, he can take my membership down. Thanks for the experienceThe purpose of debate IS to manifest truth. The purpose of debate is NOT to change someone's mind. The purpose of debate is NOT to tear down a person or make them look bad. The purpose of a debate is NOT to win.
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
taiji2 writes: When Percy recovers himself, he can take my membership down. Member accounts at EvC Forum are never deleted because it orphans their messages. If you click on "Your CP" at the top left of the page you can change your account to inactive. Your messages will then be displayed with only your member name and no other information, and you won't appear in the member roster. --Percy
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ramoss Member (Idle past 612 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
When it comes to science, there are certain criteria for what evidence is. You have to explain WHY it is evidence, and how it fits into the model. One problem with the claims for evidence for Intelligent Design is that there is no mechanism to explain why something is evidence for Intelligent Design. it ends up being on big 'argument from ignorance' or 'argument from probability'.
The evidence has to be explain the model, and it has to be testable .. and explain WHY.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7
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Wow, such emotional turmoil everywhere. When Percy recovers himself, he can take my membership down. You sound like an entitled, whiny teenager. You come here and expect everyone to be wowed and intimidated by your intelligence and sophisticated arguments. Except you have neither. You rehash tired, worn PRATTS that we have all seen before.The kicker is that if anyone points out flaws you claim you are being attacked and abused. Grow a spine. If you cannot defend your arguments then you should not bother participating on a debate site. Good day Sir.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
taiji2 writes:
If somebody else shames themselves, it isn't your concern. Just make sure you don't shame yourself.
I have heard other students told "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me". Is this something I should consider?
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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taiji2 writes:
It isn't hard to find threads like that. I've participated in hundreds of them. But you need to actually participate in the thread, not spend all your time imagining that you've been "attacked".
Please look at my last post to Percy and give me your opinion and advice on whether I can find a thread for interesting and civil conversation.
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Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
Your tips are well-intended and taken as so. thanks. But this is their game, their rules. If I played their game as they do, it might change me in ways I wouldn't like. The problem is that if we use your rules, then anything made up at the drop of the hat will be equally true as scientific theories backed by mountains of evidence. Pink Fairies causing gravity will be on level ground with Relativity, and with no way of saying that one is better than the other. What you are asking for is that everything be true by the mere act of speaking it. We happen to think that such an epistemology is not only worthless, but dangerous as well.
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taiji2 Member (Idle past 3462 days) Posts: 124 From: Georgia, USA Joined: |
Since Percy told me my membership cannot be inactivated except by me, I feel free to come back when I will. I will say what I think pertinent to say. I suspect that is not true and at some point he will push his button to shut me up, but only the future holds that answer.
You people are pathetic. The Omniverous analogy to buzzards circling was much better than the one I gave for what goes on here so I will feel free to use it. Debate will never happen on this forum because you people are so busy throwing "rocks of insult and diversion" at people's feet, there leaves no time for debate. When I came into this forum, I had no dogs in the hunt over what to teach in public schools. That is fact. The circling vultures can do with this statement what they will. The point is moot and I will speak to that in the following paragraphs. I tell you though that what has gone on here has raised my sympathy for anyone who had such dogs and were coerced into conversation with you people. Although I still do not care to engage in the politics of what is taught in schools, my experience on this forum has led me to seek out the authors and forums (if they exist) of the people on the other side of this debate (use of the word debate already qualified). I intend to gain a detailed knowledge of the corpus of ideas I have been accused of being in possession of already. I will tell those people going into conversation that we seem to share a common idea.... that a creator brought something (existence, creation, everything) out of nothing (void, null, etc.). If they leave me in the conversation even though I am Taoist, I will participate in their discussions. My point in being in that discussion will be to ascertain whether they consider the natural laws part of creation. If I find they have never considered this notion, I will ask them why. I think the smart people on that side of the fray should be able to have a conversation on that notion. If they choose to include the natural laws and all the science derived from study of those natural laws within the power of their god to have created, they will then probably be tasked with seeking out the false conclusions of those attempting to present theory on the working of natural law as fact. The question you people here need to chew on is that if the natural laws in fact are a creation of god (or what ever term you wish to use), where does that leave your arguments? My conclusion is you are arguing from a microcosm.... you are the monarchs of Pointland to use an analogy. As to changing threads, I can think of no better thread title than taiji2's complaint Have a good day. I may be talking to you later.The purpose of debate IS to manifest truth. The purpose of debate is NOT to change someone's mind. The purpose of debate is NOT to tear down a person or make them look bad. The purpose of a debate is NOT to win.
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Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
The question you people here need to chew on is that if the natural laws in fact are a creation of god (or what ever term you wish to use), where does that leave your arguments? If clouds are really made by invisible pink fairies, where does that leave meteorologists?
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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You know, no-one gives a stuff. Why don't you just get stuck into the actual arguments and leave all this 'it's all about me and my feelings' stuff your side of the your router? It's just bloody tedious.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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taiji2 Member (Idle past 3462 days) Posts: 124 From: Georgia, USA Joined: |
wow, that was scientific.
you didn't answer my implied question. What are you going to do when creationists claim natural laws as their own? Edited by taiji2, : No reason given.The purpose of debate IS to manifest truth. The purpose of debate is NOT to change someone's mind. The purpose of debate is NOT to tear down a person or make them look bad. The purpose of a debate is NOT to win.
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taiji2 Member (Idle past 3462 days) Posts: 124 From: Georgia, USA Joined: |
are you presenting a hypothesis?
you didn't answer my implied question. What are you going to do when creationists claim natural laws as their own? Edited by taiji2, : No reason given.The purpose of debate IS to manifest truth. The purpose of debate is NOT to change someone's mind. The purpose of debate is NOT to tear down a person or make them look bad. The purpose of a debate is NOT to win.
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
taiji2 writes: Since Percy told me my membership cannot be inactivated except by me,... Actually, I said something a little different. After mentioning that member accounts are never deleted because it orphans the member's messages (the board software has the ability to delete member accounts, it just is never done here) I let you know that you can activate and deactivate your account yourself. Moderators can of course edit anyone's account, but members are usually left to perform simple functions like activate/deactivate themselves.
...I feel free to come back when I will. Sure.
I will say what I think pertinent to say. I suspect that is not true and at some point he will push his button to shut me up, but only the future holds that answer. As I mentioned in the other thread, moderators are discouraged from participating and moderating in the same thread, so I won't be moderating this thread. We do have a set of Forum Guidelines that you might want to look over.
As to changing threads, I can think of no better thread title than taiji2's complaint We like to try to keep threads focused on the topic, and in fact it's in the Forum Guidelines, check out rule 2. This is the correct thread for discussing your concerns and complaints about EvC Forum. Is there a legitimate argument for design? would be the right thread for discussing Taoism as a legitimate approach to intelligent design. This is just informational since I'm not moderating this thread. --Percy
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