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Author Topic:   taiji2's complaint
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 31 of 85 (737296)
09-21-2014 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by taiji2
09-21-2014 8:30 PM


Re: opening remark
taiji2 writes:
This is an obvious failure of written communication. You have read emotional response where none exists at all. Honest injun and all that. Right now I am with less emotion about the whole forum affair than I have been since the first shot was fired.
You in effect invited a fellow vet to take it out to the parking lot. Who do you think you're kidding?
I am slow, but I finally realized you folks must have suspected I was some sort of christian mole out to make science look bad or something. I get it.
We don't think that, and you don't get it. We think your views about evidence and knowledge are fatally flawed, and that you don't tolerate criticism very well.
Lastly, I did not read the public school thing coming into the forum. If I had, would never have posted. My mistake. Sorry
Only the part between quotation marks was from the registration agreement. What I said that was in the registration agreement was, "EvC Forum hosts the debate between evolutionists and creationists." The other part where I said, "It was founded out of concern about creationism's impact on public school science education," was just some additional information for you. You can find a little more information at EvC Forum: About This Site .
Please chill a little. I am trying to untangle a mess.
I don't really see much of a mess. The other thread (Is there a legitimate argument for design?) is ready and waiting whenever you're ready to resume discussion.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by taiji2, posted 09-21-2014 8:30 PM taiji2 has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 32 of 85 (737297)
09-21-2014 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by taiji2
09-21-2014 7:34 PM


Re: opening remark
Please look at my last post to Percy and give me your opinion and advice on whether I can find a thread for interesting and civil conversation.
You could try starting a thread, so that you select the topic.
the thread on proper pursuit of id has been suggested.
Some people think the world looks as if intelligently designed. Other folk disagree. Most of us aren't really concerned about such personal and private beliefs.
The thing about ID, is that some religious groups are claiming that it is science and that it should get equal time in the science classroom. And they appeal to politics to try to enforce that. So it is inherently religious, political and anti-scientific, as discussed here. If you just want to discuss your personal beliefs, without religious or political overtones, then there might not be much of a discussion. It's hard to avoid the context of the political and religious public arguments over ID, when ID is your topic.
Or perhaps you might do better to consider starting a blog somewhere, so that you control what is discussed. You could post a link to it here (or not).
You are probably correct that this is not an appropriate site for the kind of discussion that you wanted. However, your characterization of this site is way off.
(And yes, I have been mainly lurking recently).

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by taiji2, posted 09-21-2014 7:34 PM taiji2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by taiji2, posted 09-21-2014 11:12 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
taiji2
Member (Idle past 3462 days)
Posts: 124
From: Georgia, USA
Joined: 09-10-2014


Message 33 of 85 (737298)
09-21-2014 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by nwr
09-21-2014 10:27 PM


Re: opening remark
Thanks for the clarification on the site.
I agree it is not where I need to be.
Wow, such emotional turmoil everywhere.
When Percy recovers himself, he can take my membership down.
Thanks for the experience

The purpose of debate IS to manifest truth.
The purpose of debate is NOT to change someone's mind.
The purpose of debate is NOT to tear down a person or make them look bad.
The purpose of a debate is NOT to win.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by nwr, posted 09-21-2014 10:27 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Percy, posted 09-22-2014 7:13 AM taiji2 has not replied
 Message 36 by Theodoric, posted 09-22-2014 9:21 AM taiji2 has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 34 of 85 (737304)
09-22-2014 7:13 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by taiji2
09-21-2014 11:12 PM


Re: opening remark
taiji2 writes:
When Percy recovers himself, he can take my membership down.
Member accounts at EvC Forum are never deleted because it orphans their messages. If you click on "Your CP" at the top left of the page you can change your account to inactive. Your messages will then be displayed with only your member name and no other information, and you won't appear in the member roster.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by taiji2, posted 09-21-2014 11:12 PM taiji2 has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 35 of 85 (737307)
09-22-2014 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by taiji2
09-21-2014 3:16 PM


Re: opening remark
When it comes to science, there are certain criteria for what evidence is. You have to explain WHY it is evidence, and how it fits into the model. One problem with the claims for evidence for Intelligent Design is that there is no mechanism to explain why something is evidence for Intelligent Design. it ends up being on big 'argument from ignorance' or 'argument from probability'.
The evidence has to be explain the model, and it has to be testable .. and explain WHY.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by taiji2, posted 09-21-2014 3:16 PM taiji2 has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 36 of 85 (737309)
09-22-2014 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by taiji2
09-21-2014 11:12 PM


Re: opening remark
Wow, such emotional turmoil everywhere.
When Percy recovers himself, he can take my membership down.
You sound like an entitled, whiny teenager. You come here and expect everyone to be wowed and intimidated by your intelligence and sophisticated arguments. Except you have neither. You rehash tired, worn PRATTS that we have all seen before.
The kicker is that if anyone points out flaws you claim you are being attacked and abused. Grow a spine. If you cannot defend your arguments then you should not bother participating on a debate site.
Good day Sir.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by taiji2, posted 09-21-2014 11:12 PM taiji2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by taiji2, posted 09-22-2014 2:34 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 37 of 85 (737315)
09-22-2014 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by taiji2
09-21-2014 4:33 PM


Re: opening remark
taiji2 writes:
I have heard other students told "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me". Is this something I should consider?
If somebody else shames themselves, it isn't your concern. Just make sure you don't shame yourself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by taiji2, posted 09-21-2014 4:33 PM taiji2 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 38 of 85 (737316)
09-22-2014 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by taiji2
09-21-2014 7:34 PM


Re: opening remark
taiji2 writes:
Please look at my last post to Percy and give me your opinion and advice on whether I can find a thread for interesting and civil conversation.
It isn't hard to find threads like that. I've participated in hundreds of them. But you need to actually participate in the thread, not spend all your time imagining that you've been "attacked".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by taiji2, posted 09-21-2014 7:34 PM taiji2 has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 39 of 85 (737323)
09-22-2014 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by taiji2
09-21-2014 1:18 PM


Re: opening remark
Your tips are well-intended and taken as so. thanks. But this is their game, their rules. If I played their game as they do, it might change me in ways I wouldn't like.
The problem is that if we use your rules, then anything made up at the drop of the hat will be equally true as scientific theories backed by mountains of evidence. Pink Fairies causing gravity will be on level ground with Relativity, and with no way of saying that one is better than the other.
What you are asking for is that everything be true by the mere act of speaking it. We happen to think that such an epistemology is not only worthless, but dangerous as well.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by taiji2, posted 09-21-2014 1:18 PM taiji2 has not replied

  
taiji2
Member (Idle past 3462 days)
Posts: 124
From: Georgia, USA
Joined: 09-10-2014


Message 40 of 85 (737332)
09-22-2014 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Theodoric
09-22-2014 9:21 AM


tired worn pratts
Since Percy told me my membership cannot be inactivated except by me, I feel free to come back when I will. I will say what I think pertinent to say. I suspect that is not true and at some point he will push his button to shut me up, but only the future holds that answer.
You people are pathetic. The Omniverous analogy to buzzards circling was much better than the one I gave for what goes on here so I will feel free to use it. Debate will never happen on this forum because you people are so busy throwing "rocks of insult and diversion" at people's feet, there leaves no time for debate.
When I came into this forum, I had no dogs in the hunt over what to teach in public schools. That is fact. The circling vultures can do with this statement what they will. The point is moot and I will speak to that in the following paragraphs. I tell you though that what has gone on here has raised my sympathy for anyone who had such dogs and were coerced into conversation with you people.
Although I still do not care to engage in the politics of what is taught in schools, my experience on this forum has led me to seek out the authors and forums (if they exist) of the people on the other side of this debate (use of the word debate already qualified). I intend to gain a detailed knowledge of the corpus of ideas I have been accused of being in possession of already.
I will tell those people going into conversation that we seem to share a common idea.... that a creator brought something (existence, creation, everything) out of nothing (void, null, etc.). If they leave me in the conversation even though I am Taoist, I will participate in their discussions.
My point in being in that discussion will be to ascertain whether they consider the natural laws part of creation. If I find they have never considered this notion, I will ask them why. I think the smart people on that side of the fray should be able to have a conversation on that notion.
If they choose to include the natural laws and all the science derived from study of those natural laws within the power of their god to have created, they will then probably be tasked with seeking out the false conclusions of those attempting to present theory on the working of natural law as fact.
The question you people here need to chew on is that if the natural laws in fact are a creation of god (or what ever term you wish to use), where does that leave your arguments? My conclusion is you are arguing from a microcosm.... you are the monarchs of Pointland to use an analogy.
As to changing threads, I can think of no better thread title than taiji2's complaint
Have a good day. I may be talking to you later.

The purpose of debate IS to manifest truth.
The purpose of debate is NOT to change someone's mind.
The purpose of debate is NOT to tear down a person or make them look bad.
The purpose of a debate is NOT to win.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Theodoric, posted 09-22-2014 9:21 AM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Taq, posted 09-22-2014 2:58 PM taiji2 has replied
 Message 42 by Tangle, posted 09-22-2014 3:05 PM taiji2 has replied
 Message 45 by Percy, posted 09-22-2014 3:40 PM taiji2 has not replied
 Message 69 by ringo, posted 09-23-2014 12:27 PM taiji2 has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 41 of 85 (737336)
09-22-2014 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by taiji2
09-22-2014 2:34 PM


Re: tired worn pratts
The question you people here need to chew on is that if the natural laws in fact are a creation of god (or what ever term you wish to use), where does that leave your arguments?
If clouds are really made by invisible pink fairies, where does that leave meteorologists?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by taiji2, posted 09-22-2014 2:34 PM taiji2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by taiji2, posted 09-22-2014 3:39 PM Taq has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 42 of 85 (737337)
09-22-2014 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by taiji2
09-22-2014 2:34 PM


Re: tired worn pratts
You know, no-one gives a stuff. Why don't you just get stuck into the actual arguments and leave all this 'it's all about me and my feelings' stuff your side of the your router? It's just bloody tedious.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by taiji2, posted 09-22-2014 2:34 PM taiji2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by taiji2, posted 09-22-2014 3:38 PM Tangle has replied

  
taiji2
Member (Idle past 3462 days)
Posts: 124
From: Georgia, USA
Joined: 09-10-2014


Message 43 of 85 (737339)
09-22-2014 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Tangle
09-22-2014 3:05 PM


Re: tired worn pratts
wow, that was scientific.
you didn't answer my implied question. What are you going to do when creationists claim natural laws as their own?
Edited by taiji2, : No reason given.

The purpose of debate IS to manifest truth.
The purpose of debate is NOT to change someone's mind.
The purpose of debate is NOT to tear down a person or make them look bad.
The purpose of a debate is NOT to win.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Tangle, posted 09-22-2014 3:05 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Tangle, posted 09-22-2014 6:13 PM taiji2 has not replied
 Message 62 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-22-2014 9:46 PM taiji2 has replied

  
taiji2
Member (Idle past 3462 days)
Posts: 124
From: Georgia, USA
Joined: 09-10-2014


Message 44 of 85 (737340)
09-22-2014 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Taq
09-22-2014 2:58 PM


Re: tired worn pratts
are you presenting a hypothesis?
you didn't answer my implied question. What are you going to do when creationists claim natural laws as their own?
Edited by taiji2, : No reason given.

The purpose of debate IS to manifest truth.
The purpose of debate is NOT to change someone's mind.
The purpose of debate is NOT to tear down a person or make them look bad.
The purpose of a debate is NOT to win.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Taq, posted 09-22-2014 2:58 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Taq, posted 09-22-2014 3:53 PM taiji2 has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 45 of 85 (737341)
09-22-2014 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by taiji2
09-22-2014 2:34 PM


Re: tired worn pratts
taiji2 writes:
Since Percy told me my membership cannot be inactivated except by me,...
Actually, I said something a little different. After mentioning that member accounts are never deleted because it orphans the member's messages (the board software has the ability to delete member accounts, it just is never done here) I let you know that you can activate and deactivate your account yourself. Moderators can of course edit anyone's account, but members are usually left to perform simple functions like activate/deactivate themselves.
...I feel free to come back when I will.
Sure.
I will say what I think pertinent to say. I suspect that is not true and at some point he will push his button to shut me up, but only the future holds that answer.
As I mentioned in the other thread, moderators are discouraged from participating and moderating in the same thread, so I won't be moderating this thread. We do have a set of Forum Guidelines that you might want to look over.
As to changing threads, I can think of no better thread title than taiji2's complaint
We like to try to keep threads focused on the topic, and in fact it's in the Forum Guidelines, check out rule 2. This is the correct thread for discussing your concerns and complaints about EvC Forum. Is there a legitimate argument for design? would be the right thread for discussing Taoism as a legitimate approach to intelligent design. This is just informational since I'm not moderating this thread.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by taiji2, posted 09-22-2014 2:34 PM taiji2 has not replied

  
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