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Author Topic:   If evolution is true, where did flying creatures come from?
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 67 of 225 (757401)
05-08-2015 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Faith
05-08-2015 11:30 AM


Re: Evolution of Birds
Faith writes:
I've made the case many times that there is a very real barrier to macroevolution in the fact that genetic diversity decreases as microevolution proceeds.
You made this argument over and over, but you never successfully made the case.
The reality is all around you. Natural populations are continuously budding off small sub-populations and many of those go on to found new populations and eventually new species.
Mutation occurs at far too slow a rate to affect this.
This is clearly wrong. Mutations rates are fast enough to fuel the increasing diversity of life that has been building for at least a billion years. Despite a fairly steady extinction rate punctuated by occasional mass extinctions life has increased in diversity without running out of genetic diversity as you claim.
This is what we actually see on this planet, Faith. If there is is a loss of genetic diversity as you claim, it is swamped by the sheer magnitude of mutations the restock the genetic arsenal.
Life is getting more genetically diverse, not less.
Faith writes:
Thus dies the Theory of Evolution.
Creationists keep making this claim, while the reality of science continues to use the Theory of Evolution to understand life on our planet.
How sad for you, reality does not listen to anything you say.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Faith, posted 05-08-2015 11:30 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Faith, posted 05-08-2015 12:08 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 70 of 225 (757407)
05-08-2015 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by NoNukes
05-08-2015 11:44 AM


Re: Evolution of Birds
Right. A conclusion you managed to demonstrate without a single calculation, without any measurement of mutation rate and without a complete misunderstanding of genetics.
Did you mean without a complete "understanding" of genetics rather than misunderstanding?
I don't think a person needs a complete understanding to argue about the general mechanisms of genetic processes, but Faith lacks even a rudimentary understanding and just makes things up that defy reality.
She has stated in past arguments that beneficial mutations do not happen.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by NoNukes, posted 05-08-2015 11:44 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by NoNukes, posted 05-08-2015 5:11 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 72 of 225 (757411)
05-08-2015 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Faith
05-08-2015 12:08 PM


Re: Evolution of Birds
Faith writes:
Actually they don't. There are certainly many small sub-populations but they are genetically decreased by necessity in order to produce their peculiar characteristics. The only way you get "new species" from such genetically depleted populations is by labeling those as "new species" that are SO genetically depleted they can't interbreed with the other populations any more. Further evolution is impossible in those "new species" but evolution is basically word magic. Typical evolutionist flimflam.
That is your fantasy world, Faith.
Biologists all over the world are continuing to study living things and none of them have found or reported what you claim.
What they do see is diversity increasing in large and small populations due to mutations.
Faith writes:
Evolution defeats evolution.
Evolution never stops.
Reality defeats creationism.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Faith, posted 05-08-2015 12:08 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Faith, posted 05-08-2015 4:47 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 78 of 225 (757425)
05-08-2015 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Faith
05-08-2015 4:47 PM


Re: Evolution of Birds
Faith writes:
But new traits naturally occur with reproductive isolation alone, from the built-in genetic material alone.
Incorrect.You are making stuff up again. Mutations account for new traits. Real geneticists and biologists have been studying this for over 100 years.
Faith writes:
Phenotypic diversity naturally increases when populations are reproductively isolated,
What mechanism accounts for this?
Faith writes:
because in a population with a particular trait picture, alleles for competing traits are eliminated from that group.
A particular trait picture? What does that mean? Maybe you are onto something....call the Nobel Committee!
Faith, sitting at home fantasizing about life will never trump actual scientific research. The surprising thing is that one person can be so remarkably wrong about every subject she talks about.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Faith, posted 05-08-2015 4:47 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Faith, posted 05-08-2015 6:13 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(2)
Message 82 of 225 (757437)
05-08-2015 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Faith
05-08-2015 6:13 PM


Re: Evolution of What3ever
Faith writes:
Sorry but this is not so. All you need is genetic variability in a population to produce new traits, none of which came from mutation.
Genetic variability is all derived from mutations. You go on and on and on with your made up claim that all the variability was built into the genomes when not one single scientist in the history of genetics has found it. All the evidence shows that variability is the result of past mutations and continuing mutations that happen in every mating event.
If you, who has never studied genetics, could actually come up with a new principal of how it works, then people who actually know the subject would have discovered it and won the Nobel Prize already.
Real geneticists and biologists have been studying this for over 100 years.
Under the handicap of a bogus theory keeping them from recognizing the truth.
You are clutching at straws.
That is not how scientists think at all. I never met a single scientist who is single-minded like you believe. All the scientists I have known and worked with and read continuously question themselves, question their findings, ask their colleges for opinions, because no one wants the humiliation publishing something that they should have seen is incorrect.
The only people who routinely labor under the handicap of a bogus belief that keeps them from recognizing reality are creationists.
I should have known better than to think I could get you to consider that you might be mistaken.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Faith, posted 05-08-2015 6:13 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Faith, posted 05-09-2015 4:24 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(2)
Message 92 of 225 (757485)
05-09-2015 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Faith
05-09-2015 4:24 PM


Re: Evolution of What3ever
Well, it's not made up at all, it's the logical consequence of the Biblical Creation and the fact IS that the processes that bring about evolution DO bring about reduced genetic diversity as both breeders and conservationists know very very wel
The only consequence of biblical creation is delusion.
I'm often mistaken about a particular approach to something specific, but in this case I've been working on it a long time and it keeps getting clearer, so yes you aren't going to talk me out of it with the usual evolutionist objections.
You give yourself way too much credit.
You have been working on it for a long time?
You really are a comedian, Faith. You have never been in a genetics lab, or ever prepared a sample for analysis. You have never conducted research in the field. You base your arguments on bronze age myths and you claim it keeps getting clearer?
You rely on a winning combination of delusion and humor. My advice is take your show on the road.
Like I said, I should have known better by now, so I'm done.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Faith, posted 05-09-2015 4:24 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Faith, posted 05-09-2015 5:37 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 117 of 225 (757560)
05-10-2015 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by NoNukes
05-10-2015 4:20 PM


Re: How evolution requires reduction in genetic diversity
NoNukes writes:
You've entirely missed the point. All of those breeds dogs are a single species that can interbreed an mix together. The only thing preventing those dogs from forming a bunch of diverse mutts is human beings playing 'wet blanket' and spoiling the fun.
I have to say this is one of the very best arguments I have read. I don't mean just the part I quoted, but the whole post.
You precisely and succinctly eviscerated Faith's argument and demonstrate what she clearly does not understand about genetics and biology and evolution.
The question becomes are dogs more diverse than a couple of wolves? Feel free to talk about seven pair of wolves if necessary, but the answer is clearly, yes dogs are more varied than their ancestor species and are a clear counter example to your argument. As are cats and human beings.
Perfect!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by NoNukes, posted 05-10-2015 4:20 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
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