Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 50 (9179 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: Jorge Parker
Post Volume: Total: 918,217 Year: 5,474/9,624 Month: 499/323 Week: 139/204 Day: 9/4 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   If evolution is true, where did flying creatures come from?
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 398 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 91 of 225 (757484)
05-09-2015 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Faith
05-09-2015 4:24 PM


Re: Evolution of What3ever
Well, it's not made up at all, it's the logical consequence of the Biblical Creation ...
A: I am a butterfly.
B: Prove it.
A: Well, for starters, I have six legs.
B: You made that up.
A: It's not made up at all, it's the logical consequence of me being a butterfly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Faith, posted 05-09-2015 4:24 PM Faith has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 92 of 225 (757485)
05-09-2015 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Faith
05-09-2015 4:24 PM


Re: Evolution of What3ever
Well, it's not made up at all, it's the logical consequence of the Biblical Creation and the fact IS that the processes that bring about evolution DO bring about reduced genetic diversity as both breeders and conservationists know very very wel
The only consequence of biblical creation is delusion.
I'm often mistaken about a particular approach to something specific, but in this case I've been working on it a long time and it keeps getting clearer, so yes you aren't going to talk me out of it with the usual evolutionist objections.
You give yourself way too much credit.
You have been working on it for a long time?
You really are a comedian, Faith. You have never been in a genetics lab, or ever prepared a sample for analysis. You have never conducted research in the field. You base your arguments on bronze age myths and you claim it keeps getting clearer?
You rely on a winning combination of delusion and humor. My advice is take your show on the road.
Like I said, I should have known better by now, so I'm done.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Faith, posted 05-09-2015 4:24 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Faith, posted 05-09-2015 5:37 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1558 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 93 of 225 (757488)
05-09-2015 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Tanypteryx
05-09-2015 5:24 PM


Re: Evolution of What3ever
I've been working on it via information on the sciences I cull from the internet and various posters here. Not the Bible because all that gives is the framework. And that framework is no delusion because it was given by God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-09-2015 5:24 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by PaulK, posted 05-09-2015 5:58 PM Faith has replied
 Message 97 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-09-2015 6:00 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1558 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 94 of 225 (757490)
05-09-2015 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Dr Adequate
05-09-2015 5:20 PM


Re: Evolution of whatever
A Siamese looks like other Siamese and if it's True Bred, which is apparently a term that is meaningless if we're now calling something a breed that has only one trait to make it a breed, it doesn't have any of the the genetic wherewithal for long haired Persians.
Similarly a truebred long hair Persian doesn't have the genes for Siamese.
Similarly a truebred Pekinese doesn't have the genes for a Great Dane or a Black Lab or a Chihuahua etc etc etc.
THESE are traditional breeds. The inclusion of One Trait Wonders just destroys the English language and the possibility of communication.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-09-2015 5:20 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-09-2015 5:49 PM Faith has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 398 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 95 of 225 (757493)
05-09-2015 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Faith
05-09-2015 5:42 PM


Re: Evolution of whatever
A Siamese looks like other Siamese and if it's True Bred, which is apparently a term that is meaningless if we're now calling something a breed that has only one trait to make it a breed, it doesn't have any of the the genetic wherewithal for long haired Persians.
Similarly a truebred long hair Persian doesn't have the genes for Siamese.
Similarly a truebred Pekinese doesn't have the genes for a Great Dane or a Black Lab or a Chihuahua etc etc etc.
And a truebred American Curl doesn't have genes for not being an American Curl.
THESE are traditional breeds.
And yet chihuahuas, to take just one example, are not in fact homogeneous. They come in different colors, different coat lengths, etc.
The inclusion of One Trait Wonders just destroys the English language and the possibility of communication.
You are trying to change the definition of "breed" so that it means something other than what breeders mean by it, and you are complaining about "destroying the English language and the possibility of communication"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Faith, posted 05-09-2015 5:42 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Faith, posted 05-09-2015 6:25 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17853
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 96 of 225 (757498)
05-09-2015 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Faith
05-09-2015 5:37 PM


Re: Evolution of What3ever
And in all those years the only progress you've made is to ignore problems. I mean you've stopped claiming that increases in genetic diversity would destroy species in some way you could never explain (not least because the idea is obviously absurd) but you haven't replaced it with anything else that addresses the problem.
If you believe obvious silly things - like your idea that species form by depleting genetic diversity then you are deluded. If these silly ideas are entailed by the Biblical framework then it is evidence that the Biblical framework is wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Faith, posted 05-09-2015 5:37 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Faith, posted 05-09-2015 6:29 PM PaulK has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 398 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 97 of 225 (757500)
05-09-2015 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Faith
05-09-2015 5:37 PM


Re: Evolution of What3ever
I've been working on it via information on the sciences I cull from the internet and various posters here.
You seem to have forgotten all the information supplied to you by posters here, which is why we're having to point it out to you for the second, or third, or fourth time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Faith, posted 05-09-2015 5:37 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1558 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 98 of 225 (757503)
05-09-2015 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Dr Adequate
05-09-2015 5:49 PM


Re: Evolution of whatever
delete
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-09-2015 5:49 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1558 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 99 of 225 (757504)
05-09-2015 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by PaulK
05-09-2015 5:58 PM


Re: Evolution of What3ever
Increases in genetic diversity are the opposite of the processes that produce species, such as natural selection, isolation of small populations etc. I haven't given up the idea at all.
The Bible says nothing about this, but it's certainly compatible with the idea of originally created separate Kinds with their own array of traits governed by their own genome.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by PaulK, posted 05-09-2015 5:58 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-09-2015 6:46 PM Faith has replied
 Message 105 by PaulK, posted 05-10-2015 2:22 AM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 398 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 100 of 225 (757508)
05-09-2015 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Faith
05-09-2015 6:29 PM


Re: Evolution of What3ever
Increases in genetic diversity are the opposite of the processes that produce species, such as natural selection, isolation of small populations etc.
You forgot mutation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Faith, posted 05-09-2015 6:29 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Faith, posted 05-10-2015 12:26 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1558 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 101 of 225 (757524)
05-10-2015 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Dr Adequate
05-09-2015 6:46 PM


Re: Evolution of What3ever
Mutation is an additive process, it has to be subjected to selection or isolation to have any part in the formation of species. It's the processes that subtract alleles / reduce genetic diversity that lead to new breeds, races, varieties or species.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-09-2015 6:46 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-10-2015 12:31 AM Faith has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 398 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 102 of 225 (757525)
05-10-2015 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Faith
05-10-2015 12:26 AM


Re: Evolution of What3ever
Mutation is an additive process ...
Yes.
It's the processes that subtract alleles / reduce genetic diversity that lead to new breeds, races, varieties or species.
How could that possibly be true?
---
By the way, you really should re-read the threads on this subject. If you search for the ones where I'm talking about cat breeds, that would be a good start. I may also copy-and-paste some of it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Faith, posted 05-10-2015 12:26 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Faith, posted 05-10-2015 1:07 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1558 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 103 of 225 (757532)
05-10-2015 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by Dr Adequate
05-10-2015 12:31 AM


Re: Evolution of What3ever
How could that possibly be true?
Is this just your way of denying my argument at this point, or do you really have no idea what my argument has been for over ten years now?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-10-2015 12:31 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-10-2015 1:53 AM Faith has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 398 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(4)
Message 104 of 225 (757534)
05-10-2015 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Faith
05-10-2015 1:07 AM


Re: Evolution of What3ever
Is this just your way of denying my argument at this point, or do you really have no idea what my argument has been for over ten years now?
Well, you've been low on detail. Talk us through an example. Here are two wolves (the same number that were on Noah's floating zoo).
Here are dog breeds recognized by the American Kennel Club:
There are of course more, but that's a start.
Now, I am curious to know how you suppose we got from the first picture to the second, if all that took place was a reduction in diversity. Because I don't look at the bottom picture and say "damn, where has all the diversity gone?"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Faith, posted 05-10-2015 1:07 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-10-2015 4:18 AM Dr Adequate has not replied
 Message 108 by Faith, posted 05-10-2015 2:08 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17853
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.9


(2)
Message 105 of 225 (757536)
05-10-2015 2:22 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Faith
05-09-2015 6:29 PM


Re: Evolution of What3ever
quote:
Increases in genetic diversity are the opposite of the processes that produce species, such as natural selection, isolation of small populations etc.
That's incorrect. Mutation is one of the processes that contributes to the production of new species. Whereas isolation is not even a process. Isolation of a small population only allows the process of drift to proceed faster, and in a different direction than the main population - and drift involves mutation and chance loss of alleles in dynamic equilibrium.
quote:
I haven't given up the idea at all.
Then please give some reason for thinking that it could possibly be true. Now could adding diversity interfere with speciation, especially if it occurs after the speciation has already taken place ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Faith, posted 05-09-2015 6:29 PM Faith has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024