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Author Topic:   Destiny is a reality.
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


(1)
Message 35 of 84 (743034)
11-26-2014 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by bee
11-26-2014 11:25 AM


bee writes:
My purpose in life? I don't know yet. I have yet to discover it.
But when I do, I will fulfill it.
Or you will not. As you stated in your OP not everyone fulfills their destiny. Perhaps when it becomes apparent to you, you will realize that even though you are well prepared for that future, it does not carry the same joy that it used to. For example, I always thought my future would have something to do with music, I loved playing and performing music. After having had the opportunity to involve myself in that field, I realized that when it is for a job, music is far less fun and I have removed myself from it with the exception of the one part that pays basically nothing, but is still somewhat enjoyable.
Of course, you can just turn this around and say that playing music was never my destiny, but then how will you ever be sure if something is your destiny unless you put yourself out there and try it? At that point it isn't a learning from an outside source, but putting yourself in the situation and seeing how you enjoy it. You are making a rational decision based on current experiences, not following some preplanned destiny. How can you tell the difference between if something is destined and if you simply enjoy participating in some activity? Since not everyone fulfills their destiny, how are you sure when it has been fulfilled?
bee writes:
As far as how I can know, I'll simply trust my instincts.
So, you are not trusting any outside source for what is your destiny? Why is it destined? Why are you not free to change your mind based on instincts, regardless of how much time or effort has been put forth? If you are trusting in yourself to determine your destiny, isn't that the same as just saying that "Everyone makes their own destiny"?
bee writes:
We can all agree here that God gave us a mind that can figure things out.
We most certainly all cannot agree on this fact. In fact, you will find that the ranges of belief in a "God-given mind" range widely, from your assurance that it was "God-given" to my focus on the evidence that shows no evidence of a "God" to give us our mind. Rather it was formed through evolutionary means.
bee writes:
I can pray and say, "Hi God. How are you? I was wondering if you can tell me what my purpose is." But of course, I won't do that. lol
Why not? Wouldn't that be more fruitful than going another route, such as my own, and wasting over twenty years preparing for a career in a specific industry only to discover that working in that industry carries no joy for you? (To be honest, I don't see it as a waste, but rather an interesting side journey that educated me in another area of life) However, because you have a target of a destiny, isn't this type of defeat later in life more risky of creating feelings of inadequacy for not achieving your destiny? In this case, if there is some supposed destiny giver, I would think asking for advice would be beneficial for discovering it. Why would you say otherwise?
bee writes:
It'll be a lot more fun if I figure it out myself. That's what life is about!
This I semi-agree with, minus the destiny part. I think that we actually do make our own destiny, be it good or bad, through the decisions we make. We find jobs we enjoy or drugs that ruin our lives. We find a music career that enlivens us or we choose another route later, regardless of the time that was spent achieving previous goals. After all, what is a destiny achieved other than looking at our past decisions after the fact and linking them to our current events?

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 11:25 AM bee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 12:07 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

  
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


(1)
Message 39 of 84 (743041)
11-26-2014 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by bee
11-26-2014 11:58 AM


bee writes:
Are you an atheist or something? I am sensing a tremendous lack of humanity from you.
This is a shameful quote right here. Why would you assume that atheists lack in humanity? My primary goals are to help science advance and bring relief to the suffering of individuals in the third world through increased nutrition options, reduction in preventable diseases, and increasing the overall quality of life worldwide. That you seem to think one must be religious to share empathy for fellow humans is insulting to say the least.
Similarly to what Larni is saying, I do not have regrets (outside of the one I have about starting smoking cigarettes). The reason for this isn't a lack of humanity or empathy, but rather because I realize that even the bad decisions I made have something that they are able to teach me to help my future. I had a DUI over ten years ago, because I was stupid in my youth, and I have not driven under the influence a single day since that moment. You don't regret something when you can learn from it. Instead, you take it as an example to teach you.

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 11:58 AM bee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 12:13 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has replied

  
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


Message 44 of 84 (743051)
11-26-2014 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by bee
11-26-2014 12:13 PM


bee writes:
I request that the topic of atheism be dropped from this thread.
I will drop the topic as long as you do not continue to claim that atheists have a lack of humanity, which is a claim that should be backed with evidence.
As for Destiny, I would like to reiterate my question to you, under your religious constraints (I taught youth group for 9 years before I left the church, so i do have some understanding of living a life for God), How do you differentiate between simply finding a task that fulfills you because of past experiences, mistakes and lessons versus this is what was your preordained destiny? If destiny can only be observed in hindsight, and involves connecting past experiences to current life, is there any discernible difference between something destined and making rational decisions based on evidence from your life?

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 12:13 PM bee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 12:28 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has replied

  
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


Message 49 of 84 (743059)
11-26-2014 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by bee
11-26-2014 12:28 PM


bee writes:
I use the word Destiny as a substitute for the word Purpose.
Yes, I am aware of how you are using the word. How do you differentiate your "Purpose" before the fact? Or, like Destiny, is it merely in hindsight that you can see that all decisions prior led to toward a certain outcome? If you are enjoying your path, as I was with music, how are you sure that this is the proper Purpose without rational exploration of the evidence and where this path will take you? In this case, how are you not basing your ideas on previous experience? When I wanted to work in music, I was absolutely sure I would do nothing else. However, I had never experienced the politics that are involved with teaching High School kids and it quickly absorbed the enjoyment from the work.
What is the difference between Purpose/Destiny and making rational decisions for one's future based on previous experiences that an individual has had in this world?

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 12:28 PM bee has not replied

  
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


Message 61 of 84 (743074)
11-26-2014 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by bee
11-26-2014 1:10 PM


Re: Destiny 101
bee writes:
I don't think my Master will be pleased. But then again, who am I? I'm just a demigod. Not God Himself.
Well, it is obviously fruitless to debate further with you. Pleasure to meet you. BTW...no evidence exists for a supreme being, perhaps you should tell your overlord that one. Especially considering he wants us to believe with no evidence, but gave us minds for evaluating evidence. Thank you for wasting the time of everyone involved in this conversation.

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 1:10 PM bee has not replied

  
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


Message 64 of 84 (743081)
11-26-2014 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by bee
11-26-2014 1:20 PM


bee writes:
You cuss more than he does.
Outside of my signature...where did I cuss when asking you to clarify your position?
bee writes:
You attempt to diagnose someone based off of his choice of words from the internet.
I believe I told you pleasure to meet you...is that a diagnosis?
bee writes:
You stoop to his level when he starts bullshitting people.
No, I continued to ask for clarification of your stance, which you have not dealt with in any of your responses to these messages. Rather, you have taken your idea to ridiculous extremes, which only serves to show how ludicrous your proposition is.
bee writes:
And most importantly, you just won't accept the fact that some people are simply better than others.
Well, this just seems like you want to treat others as less because they are not as good as you. That is a terrible viewpoint, and one I would say borders on the lack of humanity you tried to place at the feet of atheists.
bee writes:
Anybody want to start a debate about abortion? I am for it.
Not in this thread as that would be off topic, which is against the rules of this forum. I'd prefer you start your topic on atheism considering your lack of understanding of what being an atheist entails.
As for the premise of this thread...you have yet to differentiate destiny/purpose from simply using prior knowledge to make educated decisions about the direction to take one's life. The only way of recognizing a Purpose is to use hindsight, which falls under the same problems that Nostradamus' accuracy or Biblical Codes do. Until you can find a way to separate your meaning of destiny from the myriad of other possible explanations, it is meaningless to discuss. If you want to believe that your sky daddy gave you a purpose, feel free. personally, I'll look to the human condition, my past, and whatever education I can gain to do the best I can for our species.
Edited by Tempe 12ft Chicken, : No reason given.

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 1:20 PM bee has not replied

  
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


Message 68 of 84 (743090)
11-26-2014 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by bee
11-26-2014 3:33 PM


Re: Personal Destiny
bee writes:
You got it right. You pretty much took what was in my mind and put it properly on text, in a way that the others would've been able to understand better, compared to my vaguer statements. lol. Thanks.
You do realize that what Stile said is exactly what I am questioning from you? Do I think that everyone has a future that will make them happy? Yes, but to consider it a purpose or destiny implies some sort of outside force that ensures the individual reaches or does not reach the goal, depending on circumstances. This is why I have been asking you to differentiate between "something that we as humans use our own logic and reason to determine the path that makes the most sense for us based on previous experience and lessons" when compared with "something that someone else planned for you, regardless of whether or not you will attain it."
If you mean the former, then first off there is no need for a divine force controlling our destinies, but rather we are personally in charge of doing what makes the most logical sense for each individual's current situation. Second off, I could agree with this in the fact that I do think each individual has some future on this Earth that would make them truly happy. However, if you mean the latter, than I have to disagree because if it was preplanned, the only way to know that you achieved your destiny is in hindsight, which is a terrible way to verify that your path was preordained. You're already there, everything will seem to have conspired to get you there.....because you're there.
If that makes sense?

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 3:33 PM bee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 4:00 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has replied
 Message 71 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 4:07 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has replied

  
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


Message 73 of 84 (743098)
11-26-2014 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by bee
11-26-2014 4:00 PM


Re: Personal Destiny
bee writes:
For example, I genuinely believe that I, Bee Brian, am destined to be a leader of sorts. I exaggerate things by saying, "OMG, I CAN RULE THE WORLD! TROLLOLOLOL" But in a way, it's sincere.
Okay, now we can at least move forward a little bit in the discussion. Sometimes, getting an understanding of what the other is saying takes time, no need to resort to making random comments that do not further the discussion, ya know?
Using your example of you were destined to lead...What if you got a job leading (either a large corporation, a country, or even the world), but found that the job did not fulfill you in any meaningful way? Would you remain in the job because it was your destiny (which you stated was preordained by God) or would you rather live a purposeful and happy life finding something that you do actually enjoy?
Using my music example for myself. If it was God's intention that I become a band director in High School, am I not refusing his supposed destiny because I found it unenjoyable in practice? In this scenario, is my purpose still what I had felt strongly it was for over twenty years, or am I actually changing my own individual purpose/destiny by deciding that happiness in a career is more important than following a preordained plan? This change in a plan should, according to you, leave me unfulfilled and ending up miserable, yet the actual task I had strived to achieve was making me miserable already. In this scenario.....how does one know it is their destiny/purpose from an outside source outside of hindsight when they actually achieve happiness?

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 4:00 PM bee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 4:26 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

  
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


Message 74 of 84 (743099)
11-26-2014 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by bee
11-26-2014 4:07 PM


Re: Personal Destiny
bee writes:
To go even further, believing that you yourself determines your purpose is ROOSTER/HEN.
And this is the aspect that I buy into. We determine what has worth in our lives and we make our decisions based on previous experience. Whether or not we want to accept it is our burden...we are ultimately responsible for finding our own purpose. Having one preordained runs the risk of having a purpose an individual does not enjoy and that seems cruel of an outside preordainer (if you will), especially considering the vast numbers of individuals on this Earth, many of whom may have enjoyed the purpose one individual was forced into. If there is not a way to differentiate between "God-given" and "Human-earned", then the argument becomes moot because, as seen with Bible Codes, anything can be made to fit a prediction after the fact, the key is predicting before the fact. The number of individuals who express dissatisfaction with work situations regularly shows me that purpose seems to be more human-driven.

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 4:07 PM bee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 4:30 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

  
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