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Author Topic:   Destiny is a reality.
bee
Junior Member (Idle past 2638 days)
Posts: 28
Joined: 11-24-2014


Message 31 of 84 (743029)
11-26-2014 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Larni
11-26-2014 11:41 AM


Re: Destiny 101
This is a whole new debate in and of its own...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Larni, posted 11-26-2014 11:41 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Larni, posted 11-26-2014 11:51 AM bee has taken no action

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 32 of 84 (743030)
11-26-2014 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by bee
11-26-2014 11:46 AM


It's like asking, "How does one breathe?" or "How do I decide if whether or not I have exhaled oxygen out of my lungs?"

It is not all like that. We know in exacting detail how one breathes and the mechanisms around breathing.

What your really saying is "I beleive, but I can't explain it".

That's not an explanation, that's just whooly thinking.

Edited by Larni, : Capitalisation


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 11:46 AM bee has taken no action

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(1)
Message 33 of 84 (743032)
11-26-2014 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by bee
11-26-2014 11:48 AM


Re: Destiny 101
This is a whole new debate in and of its own...

Then you need to cease using it as justification for your conjecture about destiny if you cannot substantiate it.

That is the intellectually honest thing to do.

Edited by Larni, : No reason given.


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 11:48 AM bee has taken no action

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19520
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 34 of 84 (743033)
11-26-2014 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by bee
11-25-2014 9:23 PM


Re: Destiny 101
bee writes:

My belief was formed mostly from Western heroes such as Napoleon and Alexander. That, combined with my deep Christian devotion, made me believe that there is more to life than playing video games.


I don't think I'd characterize world conquest as "more", at least not in the sense of "better". I'd suggest that the world might be a better place if Napoleon and Alexander (and Saddam Hussein and Pol Pot and so on) had stuck to games. Maybe not fulfilling one's destiny is a good thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by bee, posted 11-25-2014 9:23 PM bee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 12:01 PM ringo has replied

  
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 1023 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


(1)
Message 35 of 84 (743034)
11-26-2014 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by bee
11-26-2014 11:25 AM


bee writes:

My purpose in life? I don't know yet. I have yet to discover it.

But when I do, I will fulfill it.

Or you will not. As you stated in your OP not everyone fulfills their destiny. Perhaps when it becomes apparent to you, you will realize that even though you are well prepared for that future, it does not carry the same joy that it used to. For example, I always thought my future would have something to do with music, I loved playing and performing music. After having had the opportunity to involve myself in that field, I realized that when it is for a job, music is far less fun and I have removed myself from it with the exception of the one part that pays basically nothing, but is still somewhat enjoyable.

Of course, you can just turn this around and say that playing music was never my destiny, but then how will you ever be sure if something is your destiny unless you put yourself out there and try it? At that point it isn't a learning from an outside source, but putting yourself in the situation and seeing how you enjoy it. You are making a rational decision based on current experiences, not following some preplanned destiny. How can you tell the difference between if something is destined and if you simply enjoy participating in some activity? Since not everyone fulfills their destiny, how are you sure when it has been fulfilled?

bee writes:

As far as how I can know, I'll simply trust my instincts.

So, you are not trusting any outside source for what is your destiny? Why is it destined? Why are you not free to change your mind based on instincts, regardless of how much time or effort has been put forth? If you are trusting in yourself to determine your destiny, isn't that the same as just saying that "Everyone makes their own destiny"?

bee writes:

We can all agree here that God gave us a mind that can figure things out.

We most certainly all cannot agree on this fact. In fact, you will find that the ranges of belief in a "God-given mind" range widely, from your assurance that it was "God-given" to my focus on the evidence that shows no evidence of a "God" to give us our mind. Rather it was formed through evolutionary means.

bee writes:

I can pray and say, "Hi God. How are you? I was wondering if you can tell me what my purpose is." But of course, I won't do that. lol

Why not? Wouldn't that be more fruitful than going another route, such as my own, and wasting over twenty years preparing for a career in a specific industry only to discover that working in that industry carries no joy for you? (To be honest, I don't see it as a waste, but rather an interesting side journey that educated me in another area of life) However, because you have a target of a destiny, isn't this type of defeat later in life more risky of creating feelings of inadequacy for not achieving your destiny? In this case, if there is some supposed destiny giver, I would think asking for advice would be beneficial for discovering it. Why would you say otherwise?

bee writes:

It'll be a lot more fun if I figure it out myself. That's what life is about!

This I semi-agree with, minus the destiny part. I think that we actually do make our own destiny, be it good or bad, through the decisions we make. We find jobs we enjoy or drugs that ruin our lives. We find a music career that enlivens us or we choose another route later, regardless of the time that was spent achieving previous goals. After all, what is a destiny achieved other than looking at our past decisions after the fact and linking them to our current events?


The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins

Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov

If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-end…the person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson

What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 11:25 AM bee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 12:07 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has taken no action

  
bee
Junior Member (Idle past 2638 days)
Posts: 28
Joined: 11-24-2014


Message 36 of 84 (743035)
11-26-2014 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Larni
11-26-2014 11:45 AM


If you are the kind of person who does not have regrets, then it's either you're better than everyone else except for the perfect person, or you are, in fact, the perfect person, whether that be Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, Dalai Lama, Tom Cruise, Drew Barrymore, Michael Jordan, etc.

It does not mean a thing. It has nothing to do with destiny. It just means that you haven't reflected enough. I simply cannot believe that you are one of the VERY few people in the world who somehow haven't made a mistake.

And if you did make a mistake and you did regret it, it means that you have probably sold your soul to the devil.

Are you an atheist or something? I am sensing a tremendous lack of humanity from you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Larni, posted 11-26-2014 11:45 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by jar, posted 11-26-2014 12:00 PM bee has taken no action
 Message 39 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 11-26-2014 12:05 PM bee has replied
 Message 41 by Larni, posted 11-26-2014 12:08 PM bee has taken no action

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33890
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 37 of 84 (743038)
11-26-2014 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by bee
11-26-2014 11:58 AM


regrets
Mistakes are what you learn from, not something to regret but rather to celebrate.

I was successful and happy mainly because I made lots and lots of mistakes.

AbE: Speaking as a Christian the devil is simply a funny fiction. Soon as that word comes up the proper response is a loud guffaw, wink wink, nudge nudge.

Edited by jar, : see AbE:


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 11:58 AM bee has taken no action

  
bee
Junior Member (Idle past 2638 days)
Posts: 28
Joined: 11-24-2014


Message 38 of 84 (743039)
11-26-2014 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by ringo
11-26-2014 11:54 AM


Re: Destiny 101
I disagree completely! Again, this is coming from a deep, Christian perspective.

Those who do not fulfill their destinies literally fuck up the world, and they lead extremely miserable lives.

Have you met a hobo before who was truly a hobo in mind, body, and soul? I've met them. They are in bliss. That is their destiny, and there's nothing wrong with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by ringo, posted 11-26-2014 11:54 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by ringo, posted 11-26-2014 12:22 PM bee has replied

  
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 1023 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


(1)
Message 39 of 84 (743041)
11-26-2014 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by bee
11-26-2014 11:58 AM


bee writes:

Are you an atheist or something? I am sensing a tremendous lack of humanity from you.

This is a shameful quote right here. Why would you assume that atheists lack in humanity? My primary goals are to help science advance and bring relief to the suffering of individuals in the third world through increased nutrition options, reduction in preventable diseases, and increasing the overall quality of life worldwide. That you seem to think one must be religious to share empathy for fellow humans is insulting to say the least.

Similarly to what Larni is saying, I do not have regrets (outside of the one I have about starting smoking cigarettes). The reason for this isn't a lack of humanity or empathy, but rather because I realize that even the bad decisions I made have something that they are able to teach me to help my future. I had a DUI over ten years ago, because I was stupid in my youth, and I have not driven under the influence a single day since that moment. You don't regret something when you can learn from it. Instead, you take it as an example to teach you.


The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins

Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov

If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-end…the person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson

What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 11:58 AM bee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 12:13 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has replied

  
bee
Junior Member (Idle past 2638 days)
Posts: 28
Joined: 11-24-2014


Message 40 of 84 (743043)
11-26-2014 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
11-26-2014 11:55 AM


Oh man, lol.

This is another discussion of it's own.

In order for me to let you see where I'm coming from, I first have to have you see GOD. But of course, I'm not a preacher. I'm just me.

Um, what I'm trying to say is, we can not engage in any kind of debate of this caliber of topic without being at least the same spiritual beliefs.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 11-26-2014 11:55 AM Tempe 12ft Chicken has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Larni, posted 11-26-2014 12:12 PM bee has taken no action

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 41 of 84 (743044)
11-26-2014 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by bee
11-26-2014 11:58 AM


It just means that you haven't reflected enough.

Or reflected so much that I no longer torture myself for things I've done in the past.

I simply cannot believe that you are one of the VERY few people in the world who somehow haven't made a mistake.

I've made lots of mistakes. But living in regret serves no purpose.

it means that you have probably sold your soul to the devil.

Impossible. I sold my soul to one of my more whooly minded friends at university for the price of a pint. I think it came to £1.20.

Are you an atheist or something? I am sensing a tremendous lack of humanity from you.

Or sensing somebody not agreeing with you.

You still have not given any reason to suspect that what you say is any more than conjecture.


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 11:58 AM bee has taken no action

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 42 of 84 (743045)
11-26-2014 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by bee
11-26-2014 12:07 PM


Um, what I'm trying to say is, we can not engage in any kind of debate of this caliber of topic without being at least the same spiritual beliefs.

So what you are saying that only people who beleive in your god can undertnad destiny?

Bollocks.

What you mean is that you have a fuzzy feeling about your place in the world (maybe you're even rationalising your position in the grand scheme of things) and you cannot articulate it.

Good one.


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 12:07 PM bee has taken no action

  
bee
Junior Member (Idle past 2638 days)
Posts: 28
Joined: 11-24-2014


Message 43 of 84 (743046)
11-26-2014 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
11-26-2014 12:05 PM


I request that the topic of atheism be dropped from this thread.

It's something that I've always wanted to talk about, but I'm not ready to do it in this thread. In a different thread, I'll do it. But not here.

The topic is: Fulfilling your Destiny.

And I'm sorry if I seemed like I'm insulting you. I was just being honest. And of course, my thoughts are my own. I acknowledge that I could be wrong, even though I don't believe it to be the case right now.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 11-26-2014 12:05 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 11-26-2014 12:19 PM bee has replied

  
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 1023 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


Message 44 of 84 (743051)
11-26-2014 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by bee
11-26-2014 12:13 PM


bee writes:

I request that the topic of atheism be dropped from this thread.

I will drop the topic as long as you do not continue to claim that atheists have a lack of humanity, which is a claim that should be backed with evidence.

As for Destiny, I would like to reiterate my question to you, under your religious constraints (I taught youth group for 9 years before I left the church, so i do have some understanding of living a life for God), How do you differentiate between simply finding a task that fulfills you because of past experiences, mistakes and lessons versus this is what was your preordained destiny? If destiny can only be observed in hindsight, and involves connecting past experiences to current life, is there any discernible difference between something destined and making rational decisions based on evidence from your life?


The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins

Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov

If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-end…the person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson

What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 12:13 PM bee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 12:28 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19520
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 45 of 84 (743052)
11-26-2014 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by bee
11-26-2014 12:01 PM


Re: Destiny 101
bee writes:

Those who do not fulfill their destinies literally fuck up the world, and they lead extremely miserable lives.


Napoleon and Alexander fucked up the world. ("Literally" is not an appropriate word here.) Alexander was miserable because there were no more worlds to fuck up. Napoleon had hemmorhoids.

bee writes:

Have you met a hobo before who was truly a hobo in mind, body, and soul? I've met them. They are in bliss. That is their destiny, and there's nothing wrong with that.


How do you know it's their destiny, except in hindsight?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 12:01 PM bee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by bee, posted 11-26-2014 12:34 PM ringo has replied

  
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