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Author Topic:   Are you Racist? Homophobic? etc
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1531 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 496 of 578 (752682)
03-12-2015 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 495 by AZPaul3
03-12-2015 9:26 AM


Re: From sea to shining sea.
My problem is that from all the descriptions of the incident with Michael Brown I couldn't, and can't, see racism on the part of Darren Wilson. Now the new investigation has brought up some racist communications in the police department. Well, that's good evidence of a general trend at least. All I want is evidence. Your stories are good evidence I think, of more racism than I'm in a position to be aware of. But the reports of these police incidents that are behind all the protests failed to produce any evidence of racism to my mind. So the protests just hit me as unjustifiable mayhem based on nothing. Myers produces some more general evidence. It is a relief to think the protests aren't just an excuse for violence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 495 by AZPaul3, posted 03-12-2015 9:26 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 497 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-12-2015 2:03 PM Faith has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 497 of 578 (752702)
03-12-2015 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 496 by Faith
03-12-2015 12:18 PM


Re: From sea to shining sea.
But the reports of these police incidents that are behind all the protests failed to produce any evidence of racism to my mind. So the protests just hit me as unjustifiable mayhem based on nothing.
That's because you think the protests were just based on those police incidents being racist.
They weren't, there's a lot more to it, I explained this to you in detail:
Message 239
Message 253
Message 254
Message 310
Again, if you cannot see that the protests are being based on something larger than just those police incidents being racist, then you are never going to understand what it is about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 496 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 12:18 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 498 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 2:25 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1531 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 498 of 578 (752708)
03-12-2015 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 497 by New Cat's Eye
03-12-2015 2:03 PM


Re: From sea to shining sea.
You really don't understand that all you've said in those posts is allegations, not evidence?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 497 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-12-2015 2:03 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 499 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-12-2015 2:41 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 500 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-12-2015 3:11 PM Faith has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 499 of 578 (752711)
03-12-2015 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 498 by Faith
03-12-2015 2:25 PM


Re: From sea to shining sea.
Which allegations would you like to see evidence for?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 498 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 2:25 PM Faith has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 500 of 578 (752722)
03-12-2015 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 498 by Faith
03-12-2015 2:25 PM


Re: From sea to shining sea.
But I'm not claiming to offer evidence sufficient to decide who's at fault in a criminal case.
Are you messing with me?
Could you please explain to me why you think that I am deciding who is at fault in a criminal case?
I repeated explained to you that the particulars of these police incidents are not the main drive behind the Black Lives Matter protests.
When I tell you that it does not matter if the cops were racist or not, you say that I have not provided evidence that they were racist.
When I tell you the particulars of these cases are unimportant and its not about that, you say that I have not provided evidence that they are racist.
When I tell you that the protests are from something bigger than these cases, and that you need to stop thinking about this cases as the sole cause, you say that I have not provided evidence for who is at fault in these cases.
You keep saying that the Black Lives Matter protests are based on nothing. That's not true.
And its important for people like you to understand what they are really based on.
But whenever I try to explain it to you, all you can do is focus on the particular police incidents and the lack of evidence of racism in them.
What do I have to do to get you to understand this? That its not about the particulars in those cases, its about a much bigger and broader problem.
Or are you just having some fun in trolling me, or something?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 498 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 2:25 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 501 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 3:13 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1531 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 501 of 578 (752724)
03-12-2015 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 500 by New Cat's Eye
03-12-2015 3:11 PM


Re: From sea to shining sea.
I read those posts, and I read them a second time when you referenced them. They don't prove what you allege, they just allege it. You allege that it's from "something bigger," but you haven't proved this.
Perhaps you need to read them again yourself.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 500 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-12-2015 3:11 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 502 by NoNukes, posted 03-12-2015 3:35 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 503 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-12-2015 3:40 PM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 502 of 578 (752735)
03-12-2015 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 501 by Faith
03-12-2015 3:13 PM


Re: From sea to shining sea.
I read those posts, and I read them a second time when you referenced them. They don't prove what you allege, they just allege it. You allege that it's from "something bigger," but you haven't proved this.
What Cat Sci has managed to show is that the people involved in the protests express larger issues than you do. At some point the question has to be why their own explanation of their motives is less credible than the ones you impute to them.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 501 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 3:13 PM Faith has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 503 of 578 (752739)
03-12-2015 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 501 by Faith
03-12-2015 3:13 PM


Re: From sea to shining sea.
Doesn't the fact that Black Lives Matter was started in 2012, before either of Brown or Garner cases, prove that it cannot be based on those events?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 501 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 3:13 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 504 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 3:48 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1531 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 504 of 578 (752743)
03-12-2015 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 503 by New Cat's Eye
03-12-2015 3:40 PM


Re: From sea to shining sea.
Doesn't the fact that Black Lives Matter was started in 2012, before either of Brown or Garner cases, prove that it cannot be based on those events?
I don't see how. I don't think I made any claims about when it started. It's a slogan alleging racism. Until the racism is proved it's just an allegation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 503 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-12-2015 3:40 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 505 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-12-2015 3:49 PM Faith has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 505 of 578 (752745)
03-12-2015 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 504 by Faith
03-12-2015 3:48 PM


Re: From sea to shining sea.
.
Edited by Cat Sci, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 504 by Faith, posted 03-12-2015 3:48 PM Faith has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 506 of 578 (755377)
04-07-2015 6:46 PM


Another Police Shooting
Bumping 'cause I can:
quote:
"South Carolina Officer is Charged with Murder in Black Man's Death" from :
A white police officer in North Charleston, S.C., was charged with murder on Tuesday after a video surfaced showing him shooting and killing an apparently unarmed black man in the back while he ran away.
The officer, Michael T. Slager, 33, had said he feared for his life because the man took his stun gun in a scuffle after a traffic stop on Saturday. A video, however, shows the officer firing eight times as the man fled. The North Charleston mayor announced the state charges at a news conference Tuesday evening.
Is this murder?
Is this racism?

Love your enemies!

Replies to this message:
 Message 507 by Theodoric, posted 04-07-2015 8:06 PM Jon has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 507 of 578 (755380)
04-07-2015 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 506 by Jon
04-07-2015 6:46 PM


Re: Another Police Shooting
BUt the victim did not take the officer's taser. The video shows the officer picking it up from the groun and putting it near the body.
Is it murder?
Seems to be according to the law.
Is it racism.
Seemingly.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 506 by Jon, posted 04-07-2015 6:46 PM Jon has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9533
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 508 of 578 (755398)
04-08-2015 3:47 AM


I was wondering whether anyone would bring up the Hinton story. This black guy was convicted of murder and spent 30 years on death row and has been now found to be innocent. There's some very shocking things about the case - like the authorities knew that the bullets fired were not a match to the gun he was supposed to have shot with for 19 years but did not act on it. That despite it was the key evidence in the case and it was shown by independent ballistics experts. He believes that he was convicted simply because he was black and he appears to have a point.
Anthony Ray Hinton blames racism for wrongful jailing - BBC News
But my main reason for bringing this up is to point to the lawyer that successfully faught this case - another black guy called Bryan Stevenson. He's an amazing guy doing work with people on death row and attempting - and succeeding - in changing some of the most iniquitous practices around the area. He says that there have been over 150 people exonerated after being sentenced to death and that a black man born in the USA this millenium has a 33% chance of being imprisoned.
He's an amazing bloke and did a TED talk a while back. I challenge anybody not to be moved by what he says:
Bryan Stevenson: We need to talk about an injustice | TED Talk

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

Replies to this message:
 Message 509 by nwr, posted 04-08-2015 9:36 AM Tangle has not replied
 Message 510 by Faith, posted 04-08-2015 5:55 PM Tangle has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6421
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 509 of 578 (755414)
04-08-2015 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 508 by Tangle
04-08-2015 3:47 AM


Unfortunately, cases like this are all too common. Our "justice system" is more a system of injustice.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 508 by Tangle, posted 04-08-2015 3:47 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 511 by Faith, posted 04-08-2015 6:38 PM nwr has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1531 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 510 of 578 (755482)
04-08-2015 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 508 by Tangle
04-08-2015 3:47 AM


I agree the Hinton case is terribly sad and there are a lot more like his. Probably usually racist but not always. His lawyer's talk to the TED group was more about poverty than race. The REAL cause is the moral failure of the prosecutors, whatever their particular motivation in a particular case.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 508 by Tangle, posted 04-08-2015 3:47 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 529 by RAZD, posted 04-10-2015 6:59 AM Faith has not replied

  
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