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Author Topic:   Addiction By Definition
ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 2 of 330 (744561)
12-12-2014 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Thugpreacha
12-11-2014 3:03 PM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Phat writes:

Does anyone here dare be honest and say they struggle with addiction?


Q: Do you suffer from addiction?
A: No. I enjoy it.

Phat writes:

Does anyone think that addiction is not a definite societal problem and that one mans sin is another mans leisure?


I've heard addiction defined as a behaviour that effects every area of your life - work, home, etc. If you can hold a job and maintain reasonably peaceful interpersonal relationships, I don't much care what bad habits you have.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-11-2014 3:03 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-13-2014 7:08 AM ringo has responded
 Message 42 by Thugpreacha, posted 05-12-2015 11:54 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 66 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-10-2016 10:30 AM ringo has responded
 Message 233 by Thugpreacha, posted 03-21-2019 2:54 PM ringo has responded
 Message 283 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-07-2019 8:52 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 11 of 330 (744597)
12-13-2014 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Thugpreacha
12-13-2014 7:08 AM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Phat writes:

Critics might suggest that you don't much care what bad habits you have either.


As I said, as long as they don't screw up my life, no, I don't care. And some of them are kinda fun along the way.

Phat writes:

Which leads us to the definition again.


Your definition does call addiction a "disease". If it doesn't cause any dis-ease - i.e. ill effects such as pain or death, then who cares if somebody chooses to call it a "bad" habit?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-13-2014 7:08 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-13-2014 4:02 PM ringo has responded
 Message 199 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-30-2017 8:15 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 228 by Thugpreacha, posted 03-17-2019 2:50 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 14 of 330 (744661)
12-14-2014 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Thugpreacha
12-13-2014 4:02 PM


Re: Addictions and Demons and Things That Go Bump In The Night
Phat writes:

As far as not caring, the first model of the Stages Of Change is pre-contemplation.


I think we should be in a state of pre-contemplation all the time. The unexamined life is not worth living, as Socrates said. The first line of defense against addiction is awareness.

When I said I don't care I meant that I don't care if something I do can technically be called an addiction. The actual effects on myself and those around me are all that matters, not a match with a definition in a book.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-13-2014 4:02 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-14-2014 1:42 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 16 of 330 (744666)
12-14-2014 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Thugpreacha
12-14-2014 1:42 PM


Re: Addictions and Demons and Things That Go Bump In The Night
Phat writes:

He mentions that by crippling myself with addictive behavior, I am depriving others of the help that I could give them.


Sure, and by working at Safeway, you're depriving Sears of your expertise. Everything we do in one area deprives another area.

Phat writes:

IF I can get this addiction cured, all of my other minor addictions of any severity or consequence will also get resolved.


Really? Or is your behaviour just as likely to be channelled in another direction?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-14-2014 1:42 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-14-2014 1:55 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 18 of 330 (744675)
12-14-2014 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Thugpreacha
12-14-2014 1:55 PM


Re: Addictions and Demons and Things That Go Bump In The Night
Phat writes:

Lets do some research on this one. Assuming EvC (and us) are still here in six months, let me get back to you on this one.


I'm always glad for somebody else to do my homework for me.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-14-2014 1:55 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-26-2016 9:12 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 30 of 330 (746104)
01-02-2015 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by New Cat's Eye
01-02-2015 11:48 AM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Cat's Eye writes:

Your brain tricks your body into thinking that it needs the chemical or behavior to survive, but it really doesn't.


So the distinction is between addiction and need. An addiction is a counterfeit "need".
This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-02-2015 11:48 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-02-2015 11:59 AM ringo has responded
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ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 32 of 330 (746108)
01-02-2015 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by New Cat's Eye
01-02-2015 11:59 AM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Cat's Eye writes:

But it doesn't fit with the proposed definition that the counterfeit need has to cause some kind of life problem - but I don't agree with that definition anyways.


Yeah, I'm leaning away from the "problem" approach myself. An addiction is only a problem if it's a problem but it's still an addiction even if it isn't a problem.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-02-2015 11:59 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-03-2015 2:25 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 34 of 330 (746139)
01-03-2015 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Thugpreacha
01-03-2015 2:25 AM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Phat writes:

satan could hypothetically be an addiction. He essentially is a counterfeit need yet is only a problem for some.


If he was real, he could be. What about the need to blame somebody besides ourselves? Would that be an addiction too?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-03-2015 2:25 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-03-2015 11:41 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 46 of 330 (758667)
05-30-2015 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Thugpreacha
05-29-2015 6:07 PM


Re: Rational Recovery Philosophy Examined
Phat writes:

Its not the length of sobriety so much as it is the total number of days of sobriety overall versus the total number of relapsing(irresponsible,rebellious) days of addiction hat make up the big picture.


I worked with a young fellow who used to quit smoking every week - a day or so of abstention in every seven.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Thugpreacha, posted 05-29-2015 6:07 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-27-2015 4:32 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 50 of 330 (775255)
12-30-2015 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Thugpreacha
12-27-2015 4:32 PM


Re: Rational Recovery Philosophy Examined
Phat writes:

Stage 4 – understanding (and accepting) a life without the addiction.


I have to say that gambling is an addiction that I can not understand. I don't find gambling the least bit appealing. I'm horrified at the prospect of losing, not thrilled at the prospect of winning.

I can understand the appeal of alcohol. I can also understand a life without alcohol but I don't know how you can go from one understanding to the other.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-27-2015 4:32 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-30-2015 3:11 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 52 of 330 (775259)
12-30-2015 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Thugpreacha
12-30-2015 3:11 PM


Re: Rational Recovery Philosophy Examined
Phat writes:

The point is that you can understand what appeals you.


My point is that I can understand what appeals to me and I can also understand that it isn't good for me - I can hold both understandings in my mind at once, even though they're contradictory. The question is, how do I change my behaviour to coincide with one understanding and not the other?

Phat writes:

The brain may, however, be sending false signals.


The brain is sending conflicting signals. How do we choose which are "false"?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-30-2015 3:11 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-01-2016 3:02 PM ringo has responded
 Message 55 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-03-2016 8:14 AM ringo has responded
 Message 188 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-13-2017 8:37 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 54 of 330 (775504)
01-02-2016 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Thugpreacha
01-01-2016 3:02 PM


Re: Rational Recovery Philosophy Examined
Phat writes:

How do you personally know the difference between your understandings?


What appeals to me is intuitive. I can't explain to you why I like pickled herring or why I don't like cashews but it isn't something I have to think about. What's "good for me" has more to do with outside influences - what other people tell me. I "know" that sugar is bad for me but I don't feel it.

Phat writes:

... do you intuitively know which understanding is the better of the two?


Well, I intuit one and I know the other.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-01-2016 3:02 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 56 of 330 (775711)
01-04-2016 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Thugpreacha
01-03-2016 8:14 AM


Re: Rational Recovery Philosophy Examined
Phat writes:

•The Beast lives largely in the present moment. The future consequences are never considered.

• The Beast does not care about our health. It only cares about our present desires and happiness.


Of course the Beast isn't only a problem with addictive behaviour. We need to control our impulses to punch people or to skip work, etc.

As you say, the real problem is in recognizing the Beast.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-03-2016 8:14 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-07-2016 2:09 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 59 of 330 (775969)
01-07-2016 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Thugpreacha
01-07-2016 2:09 AM


Re: Rational Recovery Philosophy Examined
Phat writes:

The consensus among scientists now is that OCD is a medical disorder rather than simply an impulse control disorder.


I don't doubt that there's a medical component but that's not an excuse for behaviour.

Phat writes:

First and foremost, however, is a willingness to let go and use logic and reason.


This is what seems contradictory to me. It's a medical disorder, so we use logic and reason to cure it? We can (hypothetically) use logic and reason to control our behaviour in spite of the medical disorder - but that doesn't seem to be working reliably.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-07-2016 2:09 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-07-2016 8:42 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 69 of 330 (792555)
10-11-2016 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Thugpreacha
10-10-2016 10:30 AM


Re: Day 85 and glad to be alive
Phat writes:

Im not fully in touch with those feelings yet.


Who is?

When I see people making bad decisions I wonder if they ask themselves, "Is this going to improve my life?" Of course we all make decisions based on a combination of logic and feelings, so being "in touch with your feelings" isn't an end in itself.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-10-2016 10:30 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-11-2016 11:13 PM ringo has responded

  
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