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Author | Topic: Addiction By Definition | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Q: Do you suffer from addiction?
Does anyone here dare be honest and say they struggle with addiction?A: No. I enjoy it. Phat writes:
I've heard addiction defined as a behaviour that effects every area of your life - work, home, etc. If you can hold a job and maintain reasonably peaceful interpersonal relationships, I don't much care what bad habits you have.
Does anyone think that addiction is not a definite societal problem and that one mans sin is another mans leisure?
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ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
As I said, as long as they don't screw up my life, no, I don't care. And some of them are kinda fun along the way.
Critics might suggest that you don't much care what bad habits you have either. Phat writes:
Your definition does call addiction a "disease". If it doesn't cause any dis-ease - i.e. ill effects such as pain or death, then who cares if somebody chooses to call it a "bad" habit?
Which leads us to the definition again.
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ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
I think we should be in a state of pre-contemplation all the time. The unexamined life is not worth living, as Socrates said. The first line of defense against addiction is awareness. As far as not caring, the first model of the Stages Of Change is pre-contemplation. When I said I don't care I meant that I don't care if something I do can technically be called an addiction. The actual effects on myself and those around me are all that matters, not a match with a definition in a book.
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ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Sure, and by working at Safeway, you're depriving Sears of your expertise. Everything we do in one area deprives another area.
He mentions that by crippling myself with addictive behavior, I am depriving others of the help that I could give them. Phat writes:
Really? Or is your behaviour just as likely to be channelled in another direction?
IF I can get this addiction cured, all of my other minor addictions of any severity or consequence will also get resolved.
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ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I'm always glad for somebody else to do my homework for me.
Lets do some research on this one. Assuming EvC (and us) are still here in six months, let me get back to you on this one.
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ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Cat's Eye writes:
So the distinction is between addiction and need. An addiction is a counterfeit "need".
Your brain tricks your body into thinking that it needs the chemical or behavior to survive, but it really doesn't.
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ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Cat's Eye writes:
Yeah, I'm leaning away from the "problem" approach myself. An addiction is only a problem if it's a problem but it's still an addiction even if it isn't a problem.
But it doesn't fit with the proposed definition that the counterfeit need has to cause some kind of life problem - but I don't agree with that definition anyways.
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ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
If he was real, he could be. What about the need to blame somebody besides ourselves? Would that be an addiction too?
satan could hypothetically be an addiction. He essentially is a counterfeit need yet is only a problem for some.
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ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I worked with a young fellow who used to quit smoking every week - a day or so of abstention in every seven.
Its not the length of sobriety so much as it is the total number of days of sobriety overall versus the total number of relapsing(irresponsible,rebellious) days of addiction hat make up the big picture.
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ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I have to say that gambling is an addiction that I can not understand. I don't find gambling the least bit appealing. I'm horrified at the prospect of losing, not thrilled at the prospect of winning. Stage 4 — understanding (and accepting) a life without the addiction. I can understand the appeal of alcohol. I can also understand a life without alcohol but I don't know how you can go from one understanding to the other.
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ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
My point is that I can understand what appeals to me and I can also understand that it isn't good for me - I can hold both understandings in my mind at once, even though they're contradictory. The question is, how do I change my behaviour to coincide with one understanding and not the other?
The point is that you can understand what appeals you. Phat writes:
The brain is sending conflicting signals. How do we choose which are "false"?
The brain may, however, be sending false signals.
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ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
What appeals to me is intuitive. I can't explain to you why I like pickled herring or why I don't like cashews but it isn't something I have to think about. What's "good for me" has more to do with outside influences - what other people tell me. I "know" that sugar is bad for me but I don't feel it.
How do you personally know the difference between your understandings? Phat writes:
Well, I intuit one and I know the other.
... do you intuitively know which understanding is the better of the two?
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ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Of course the Beast isn't only a problem with addictive behaviour. We need to control our impulses to punch people or to skip work, etc. The Beast lives largely in the present moment. The future consequences are never considered. The Beast does not care about our health. It only cares about our present desires and happiness. As you say, the real problem is in recognizing the Beast.
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ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I don't doubt that there's a medical component but that's not an excuse for behaviour.
The consensus among scientists now is that OCD is a medical disorder rather than simply an impulse control disorder. Phat writes:
This is what seems contradictory to me. It's a medical disorder, so we use logic and reason to cure it? We can (hypothetically) use logic and reason to control our behaviour in spite of the medical disorder - but that doesn't seem to be working reliably.
First and foremost, however, is a willingness to let go and use logic and reason.
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ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Who is? Im not fully in touch with those feelings yet. When I see people making bad decisions I wonder if they ask themselves, "Is this going to improve my life?" Of course we all make decisions based on a combination of logic and feelings, so being "in touch with your feelings" isn't an end in itself.
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