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Author | Topic: Atheists can't hold office in the USA? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4
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Make it 50 years to go with the other 50s.
Which reminds me (and Ed's ma is doing fine), make it so that within a company the top wage earner can make no more than 50 times the lowest wage earner. Forget a minimum wage, how about no worse than a 50th of the top earner?- xongsmith, 5.7d
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4 |
Tangle writes:
The answer to the question 'do you believe in god" returns only three responses, 'yes', 'no', 'don't know'. Because belief is binary, a 'don't know' response is 'no'. The 'i don't know reply' is a lack of belief. Why couldn't it be possible that the person doesn't know what is in his or her mind? "I don't know" could just as easily be the same as a lack of disbelief. Couldn't they be saying "I don't know if I don't believe in God."?- xongsmith, 5.7d
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4 |
Straggler 10k+ finally revives the old thread with the Dawkins scale:
1 Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of C.G. Jung: "I do not believe, I know." 2 De facto theist. Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. "I don't know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there." 3 Leaning towards theism. Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. "I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God." 4 Completely impartial. Exactly 50 per cent. "God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable." 5 Leaning towards atheism. Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. "I do not know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be skeptical." 6 De facto atheist. Very low probability, but short of zero. "I don't know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there." 7 Strong atheist. "I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung knows there is one." I particularly like the "live my life" qualifiers. Some of us may recall that RAZD further argued that a 1 or a 2 or a 6 or a 7 would need to provide some kind of scientific EVIDENCE to support their position. He was especially targeting the 6's, I think, while calling himself a 3. That is why my sig snarkily puts me at 5.7. - xongsmith, 5.7d
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4 |
Petro writes:
I do not see how you can sign this as an atheist, since it clearly states that the Rights of Man come from God/Creator or from somewhere outside of the purview of man. I regard my parents as being my Creators, but if I had to pick one, I'd go with my mother, because she clearly did most of the work creating me.- xongsmith, 5.7d
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4
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Stile tries with
Removing the double-negative BUT
not not-believing in god is not the same as believing in god.
...and this the issue, methinks.- xongsmith, 5.7d
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4
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Jon asks :
The question was 'what are the Jets?' If you have no clue what the Jets are, how can you support them? Support? Who said anything about support? When you're a Jet, you're a Jet all the wayFrom your first cigarette to your last dying day! - xongsmith, 5.7d
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4 |
Tangle un-entangles on:
I'm simply trying to discuss the meaning of two words, belief - which is a positive and binary position on something which can't be proven, and knowledge which is something we can have proof of. However, in my mind "belief" is NOT binary, being either 0 or 1. So I don't accept that premise right from start. For me, "belief" is a whole continuum between 0.000 and 1.000. Any value in between therefore includes some agnosticism of that kind., and therefore your whole argument is useless to me. It's ok though, because others here have found it useful. Also, knowledge doesn't imply we have "proof", if your talking about "scientific proof", which at best can only be considered the closest we have to proof at this point in time. Edited by xongsmith, : But 2 So- xongsmith, 5.7d
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4 |
Tangle entangles a bit more:
When people say that they believe or don't believe in god, they're not doing it from any evidenced based, scientific knowledge. Let's reconsider the Dawkins scale, which runs from a 1.0 (Strong Atheist who "believes fully without doubt" the supernatural does NOT exist) up to a 7.0 (Strong Believer who "believes fully without doubt" the supernatural does exist). Would it be fair to characterize your semantical argument here in this thread as
Either you're a 7.0 or you're not ?? Maybe we could include the 6's and the 2's.6's and 2's live their lives as if they are 7's or 1's respectively. So then it would be
Either you're a (6.0 or more) or you're less than 6.0 ??? What if I will only believe stuff if there is
sound, evidenced based scientific knowledge. Edited by xongsmith, : 3rd thought- xongsmith, 5.7d
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4
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Tangle continues:
it allows those that actually don't believe to pretend. See...in my mind this is a huge INSULT to categories 3,4,5 and also to 2's and 6's.. It's just as bad as calling Catholics DELUDED or Muslims DELUDED, or any other theist group. I dismiss this. Unless, perhaps you are just categorically insulting all believers, full or partial?
people needed a way out a way out of what?- xongsmith, 5.7d
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4 |
We know that you cannot be elected today if you are openly declaring you are an atheist or even agnostic at the 5 or 6 Dawkins level, but how many elected Presidents probably LIED about this and got elected anyway? There was a famous incident with FDR when they didn't cut off the fireside microphone fast enough and he was overheard to mutter "...are we done with this God thing yet?" Did Nixon lie about his faith? Obama? Is Obama really a non-believer, as he tangentially referred to in his inaugural address, which would explain his poor attendance in that church? Is an atheist held in more or less regard in the US than a Muslim? Are they tied for most disrespected in the US?
- xongsmith, 5.7d |
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4
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Tangle, back in Message 593 you answered TAD this way:
TAD writes: There isn't a single god that has ever been described to me by a believer (or I have read about) that the evidence has been convincing enough for me to adopt a position of belief in that god. Then you can say that you are an atheist......what's the problem? No, he can't. He is not ruling out the possibility that some day he will run into a description with enough evidence to adopt a position of belief. Imagine each of these descriptions being in a box that is too high for you to see inside. You reach in and take something out, look at it and reject it. So far everything you have pulled out of the box you have rejected. The atheist will conclude that there is nothing ever in the box that will be accepted. The agnostic allows for there to be a chance that something will. Edited by xongsmith, : never- xongsmith, 5.7d
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4 |
Where is bluegenes?
- xongsmith, 5.7d |
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