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Author Topic:   Atheists can't hold office in the USA?
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2603
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


(3)
Message 62 of 777 (747593)
01-17-2015 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by RAZD
01-17-2015 1:04 AM


Re: It's hard to modify Constitutions
Make it 50 years to go with the other 50s.
Which reminds me (and Ed's ma is doing fine), make it so that within a company the top wage earner can make no more than 50 times the lowest wage earner.
Forget a minimum wage, how about no worse than a 50th of the top earner?

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by RAZD, posted 01-17-2015 1:04 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2603
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


Message 95 of 777 (747799)
01-19-2015 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Tangle
01-19-2015 4:22 PM


Re: agnostic anyone?
Tangle writes:
The answer to the question 'do you believe in god" returns only three responses, 'yes', 'no', 'don't know'. Because belief is binary, a 'don't know' response is 'no'. The 'i don't know reply' is a lack of belief.
Why couldn't it be possible that the person doesn't know what is in his or her mind? "I don't know" could just as easily be the same as a lack of disbelief.
Couldn't they be saying "I don't know if I don't believe in God."?

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Tangle, posted 01-19-2015 4:22 PM Tangle has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2603
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


Message 171 of 777 (748199)
01-23-2015 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Straggler
01-23-2015 10:54 AM


Re: Find me a gnostic atheist
Straggler 10k+ finally revives the old thread with the Dawkins scale:
1 Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of C.G. Jung: "I do not believe, I know."
2 De facto theist. Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. "I don't know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there."
3 Leaning towards theism. Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. "I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God."
4 Completely impartial. Exactly 50 per cent. "God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable."
5 Leaning towards atheism. Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. "I do not know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be skeptical."
6 De facto atheist. Very low probability, but short of zero. "I don't know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."
7 Strong atheist. "I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung knows there is one."
I particularly like the "live my life" qualifiers.
Some of us may recall that RAZD further argued that a 1 or a 2 or a 6 or a 7 would need to provide some kind of scientific EVIDENCE to support their position. He was especially targeting the 6's, I think, while calling himself a 3.
That is why my sig snarkily puts me at 5.7.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

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 Message 167 by Straggler, posted 01-23-2015 10:54 AM Straggler has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2603
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


Message 185 of 777 (748290)
01-24-2015 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by petrophysics1
01-24-2015 4:54 AM


Re: The Foundation of the Rights of Man
Petro writes:
I do not see how you can sign this as an atheist, since it clearly states that the Rights of Man come from God/Creator or from somewhere outside of the purview of man.
I regard my parents as being my Creators, but if I had to pick one, I'd go with my mother, because she clearly did most of the work creating me.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2603
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


(1)
Message 271 of 777 (748806)
01-29-2015 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by Stile
01-29-2015 1:17 PM


Re: Know Thyself
Stile tries with
Removing the double-negative
BUT
not not-believing in god
is not the same as believing in god.
...and this the issue, methinks.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

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 Message 270 by Stile, posted 01-29-2015 1:17 PM Stile has replied

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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2603
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


(1)
Message 293 of 777 (748895)
01-30-2015 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by Jon
01-30-2015 7:39 PM


Re: Know Thyself
Jon asks :
The question was 'what are the Jets?' If you have no clue what the Jets are, how can you support them?
Support? Who said anything about support?
When you're a Jet, you're a Jet all the way
From your first cigarette to your last dying day!

- xongsmith, 5.7d

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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2603
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


Message 329 of 777 (749053)
02-01-2015 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 317 by Tangle
02-01-2015 3:53 AM


Re: Know Thyself
Tangle un-entangles on:
I'm simply trying to discuss the meaning of two words, belief - which is a positive and binary position on something which can't be proven, and knowledge which is something we can have proof of.
However, in my mind "belief" is NOT binary, being either 0 or 1. So I don't accept that premise right from start. For me, "belief" is a whole continuum between 0.000 and 1.000. Any value in between therefore includes some agnosticism of that kind., and therefore your whole argument is useless to me. It's ok though, because others here have found it useful.
Also, knowledge doesn't imply we have "proof", if your talking about "scientific proof", which at best can only be considered the closest we have to proof at this point in time.
Edited by xongsmith, : But 2 So

- xongsmith, 5.7d

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 Message 317 by Tangle, posted 02-01-2015 3:53 AM Tangle has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2603
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


Message 416 of 777 (749421)
02-04-2015 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 415 by Tangle
02-04-2015 12:06 PM


Re: Know Thyself
Tangle entangles a bit more:
When people say that they believe or don't believe in god, they're not doing it from any evidenced based, scientific knowledge.
Let's reconsider the Dawkins scale, which runs from a 1.0 (Strong Atheist who "believes fully without doubt" the supernatural does NOT exist) up to a 7.0 (Strong Believer who "believes fully without doubt" the supernatural does exist).
Would it be fair to characterize your semantical argument here in this thread as
Either you're a 7.0 or you're not
??
Maybe we could include the 6's and the 2's.
6's and 2's live their lives as if they are 7's or 1's respectively.
So then it would be
Either you're a (6.0 or more) or you're less than 6.0
???
What if I will only believe stuff if there is
sound, evidenced based scientific knowledge.
Edited by xongsmith, : 3rd thought

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by Tangle, posted 02-04-2015 12:06 PM Tangle has replied

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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2603
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


(1)
Message 451 of 777 (749640)
02-06-2015 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 449 by Tangle
02-06-2015 3:49 PM


Re: Know Thyself
Tangle continues:
it allows those that actually don't believe to pretend.
See...in my mind this is a huge INSULT to categories 3,4,5 and also to 2's and 6's.. It's just as bad as calling Catholics DELUDED or Muslims DELUDED, or any other theist group. I dismiss this.
Unless, perhaps you are just categorically insulting all believers, full or partial?
people needed a way out
a way out of what?

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 449 by Tangle, posted 02-06-2015 3:49 PM Tangle has replied

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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2603
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


Message 622 of 777 (750624)
02-19-2015 1:37 PM


Have atheists held high office in the USA already?
We know that you cannot be elected today if you are openly declaring you are an atheist or even agnostic at the 5 or 6 Dawkins level, but how many elected Presidents probably LIED about this and got elected anyway? There was a famous incident with FDR when they didn't cut off the fireside microphone fast enough and he was overheard to mutter "...are we done with this God thing yet?" Did Nixon lie about his faith? Obama? Is Obama really a non-believer, as he tangentially referred to in his inaugural address, which would explain his poor attendance in that church? Is an atheist held in more or less regard in the US than a Muslim? Are they tied for most disrespected in the US?

- xongsmith, 5.7d

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2603
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


(1)
Message 623 of 777 (750625)
02-19-2015 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 621 by Tangle
02-19-2015 1:23 PM


Re: Fresh meat. :-)
Tangle, back in Message 593 you answered TAD this way:
TAD writes:
There isn't a single god that has ever been described to me by a believer (or I have read about) that the evidence has been convincing enough for me to adopt a position of belief in that god.
Then you can say that you are an atheist......what's the problem?
No, he can't. He is not ruling out the possibility that some day he will run into a description with enough evidence to adopt a position of belief.
Imagine each of these descriptions being in a box that is too high for you to see inside. You reach in and take something out, look at it and reject it. So far everything you have pulled out of the box you have rejected. The atheist will conclude that there is nothing ever in the box that will be accepted. The agnostic allows for there to be a chance that something will.
Edited by xongsmith, : never

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 621 by Tangle, posted 02-19-2015 1:23 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2603
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


Message 763 of 777 (751778)
03-05-2015 3:49 PM


Where is bluegenes?

- xongsmith, 5.7d

  
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