A measured look at a difficult situation

Before I start I'll point out that I'm Irish. Grew up in Dublin, and studied in Belfast right about the time of the IRA ceasefire in the early nineties.To Faith: I ask you to do some research on your claims that the IRA began the conflict, and that ONLY protestants were adversely affected. Please.. research this honestly because you are making a massive fool of yourself as it is clear you have absolutely NO IDEA what started, or what happened during the "Troubles". Your one sided view of history is beyond ridiculous to ANYONE from either side who grew up during the troubles.There seems to be a massive assumption in this that the conflict in northern Ireland was caused by religious differences.
This isn't true, this has been about the fight for a united Ireland. Going on for some 800 years now, but good, recent waypoint/milestone is the home rule act 1886:
Government of Ireland Bill 1886 - WikipediaThe Unionist/loyalist politicians/gunmen have redrawn the battle along religious lines over the years, (with Paisley and the Orange order at the forefront of sectarian bigotry in that time), and also redrawn political boundaries to ensure no catholic voice in government:
Gerrymandering - Wikipedia
culminating in more recent years with the pure sectarian violence we saw at places like Greysteel Greysteel massacre - Wikipedia
Shankill Road: Shankill Butchers - WikipediaNow I am aware of the IRA attrocities, and do not in anyway for one second condone them. But faith's notion that "this is all the IRA's fault" is beyond fantasy. Not even the most hardline loyalist would agree with that with any kind of a clear concience.The root of the modern "armed struggle" could be said to be traced to the civil rights marches in the 60s. At this time Unionist paramilitaries were forming in supposed anticipation of an expected IRA build up (The IRA had, in 1966 blown up Nelson's Pillar in dublin as a protest about British influence)
GUsty Spence, (A british Solidier) Formed the UVF who, to coincide with Irish parades commemorating the Easter Rising: The Troubles - WikipediaAt this point, the Loyalist Paramilitaries made clear that ANY catholic regardless of political persuasion was a legitimate target. (I myself was attacked in 1996 in Belfast for Merely daring to have a Dublin Accent)A series of (Peaceful) civil rights marches followed, protesting against gerrymandering housing discrimination etc, all were targeted by the loyalist paramilitaries. The Troubles - WikipediaI could go on listing the further attacks by protestants on innocent catholic civilians, but it's all information which is undisputed and available freely.On reading Faiths comments to date It is clear her understanding is completely muddled and one-eyed. I will just caution everyone to take nothing she says at face value on this subject, but I suspect most of you already know this.I am not going to take part in this thread to any large extent because this subject has been done to death, and there is no discussion you can have that hasn't already been had.suffice to say the northern Ireland conflict goes way beyond Catholics versus protestants, and in no conceivable universe can be summarized as "Catholics bad, Protestants good" as Faith would have you believe.Edited by Heathen, : No reason given.

If you're asking: "Is Faith's claimed Catholic persecution of protestants in Northern Ireland a serious present time social problem?".
The answer is no. as I know this claim by Faith to be utterly false and one made (as per usual) without proper thought, consideration or research.

I agree to a point.The main driver in the NI peace process, as unpalatable as it seemed/may seem was direct engagement with the terrorists. secret meetings, prisoner deals etc all played a major role in bringing about the ceasefires and subsequent disarming and eventual decommissioning of those arms.John Hume (SDLP MP) is to be singularly applauded for this work.

It was prominent. Catholic emancipation was a big movement in Ireland aimed at removing the restrictions placed by the British Government on Catholics.
Things like allowing catholics to sit in Westminster (UK parliament) which had been disallowed for 100 years, allowing Catholics to own property (which as only landowners were allowed to vote, was instrumental in giving Catholics Voting rights also).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_emancipation.But moving forward to the conflict in NORTHERN Ireland, this is largely born out of a deal that Michael Collins did with the british Government, drawig a boundary between north and south and allowing for partial withdrawal from the island of Ireland. that fight has been about "The Cause", i.e. the vision of a United Ireland. The religious divide has been a crutch to fuel the violence "In the name of" nationalism/unionism.
Michael Collins (Irish leader) - Wikipedia I guess religion provided "targets" for the paramilitaries, and true, the nationalist/unionist divide is split roughly along religious lines. this is generally true. now there were instances when civilians were DELIBERATELY targeted, but, by and large the IRA were known for calling in Bomb warnings under the name "Pat O Neill" and generally, when they targeted public places, there was time to evacuate.
However, notable exceptions include the Warrington Bombings
Warrington bombings - Wikipedia
the birmingham pub bombings
Birmingham pub bombings - Wikipedia
here's a fairly comprehensive list of the bombings from both sides over the years.
List of bombings during the Troubles - Wikipedia
The IRA did have a habit of targetting people supporting the security forces, be thay cleaners, trades men or even pizza delivery people working at/delivering to police/army/british government.
The loyalist paramilitaries tended to be more indiscriminate in their attacks and would simply kill any catholic who ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time. A big turning point was the Civil rights march in Derry in 1972 when the British government sent in the paratroopers to a peaceful demonstration and killed 13 civilians. It became known as "Bloody Sunday"
Bloody Sunday (1972) - Wikipedia
This has been widely documented/investigated and there was an inquiry a few years back I don't think so, as the decommissioning process was going on long before 9/11.
Dates were set for May/June/July 2001, these dates passed for various reasons.
Decommissioning in Northern Ireland - Wikipedia

And in this you've demonstrated your complete ignorance on this subject.

nonsense, and even the most cursory of investigations makes that clear
Irish Rebellion of 1798 - Wikipedia So the rebels were founded by protestant liberals.
(note: Daniel O connell the leader of catholic emancipation was a protestant) the notion of sectarianism was used by the government as a divide and conquer strategy: The Catholic Church OPPOSED the rebellion: Yes, there were massacres of loyalists by the rebels also: But your one-sided view is beyond ridiculous.Edited by Heathen, : No reason given.Edited by Heathen, : No reason given.

Glad you admit the history is far more complex that you thought. This conflict has been going on for 800 years or more in various forms. Your simplistic, tribalist, 'Protestants as martyrs' view is unfounded, inaccurate and simplistic in the extreme.Have the good grace to bow out of the discussion as with every post you make you highlight the ridiculousness of your interpretation of the tiny part of this history you are aware of.

Well then stop. Because you cannot cherry pick one battle or one rebellion and claim persecution of Protestants in Irish history. Even you must see this as unreasonable?

You know nothing.

You are wrong, a ten minute glance at the wiki article for the rebellion shows that catholics were attacked, (not to mention the reason for the rebellion was a complete erosion of the rights of catholics and the theft of their lands by the authorities for redistribution to the planters). The aim of this was essentially a re-colonisation of Ireland, and yes, the native population fought this. What they wanted was religious toleration and land security. and you completely ignore all/any attacks by loyalists/Protestants on Nationalist/Catholics? No. The aggressor was the British Establishment who stripped ordinary Irish people of basic rights. Read up on the "Penal Laws"
You simply cannot extract one two year period out of history and examine it in isolation and then claim that the violence was somehow unprovoked. That's tantamount to picking one instance of bristish aggression against civilians out of WW2 and claiming the nazis as the victims. It's ridiculous.

Edited by Heathen, : No reason given.

"By and Large" Catholics don't do that either, What do you think, that Catholics are somehow imbued with the mental instinct to kill all Protestants?
This is horseshit.
Visit Ireland/Northern Ireland,
Take a look at the murals on the wall,
Attend some of the Orange Order Parades,
Listen to the songs that celebrate massacres and sing triumphantly about being "Up to our necks in Fenian Blood".
Read the news archives,
Read the history books.
Do some fucking research then reassess your bullshit, idiotic point of view. This is not a fact, the Irish rebellion of 1641, as I have pointed out was a reaction to the erosion of the rights of Irish catholics in their own country by a foreign occupying nation. I have referenced this on at least three occasions. This is completely false. I'll say it again. You know nothing.Edited by Heathen, : No reason given.Edited by Heathen, : No reason given.Edited by Heathen, : No reason given.Edited by Heathen, : No reason given.

What? the killing during the Irish rebellion has nothing to do with politics?
Have you taken leave of your senses?
The causes of the irish rebellion have been described, outlined, referenced over and over for you. Do some reading.

Your point is so very simple and that is why it is ridiculous. It ignores all context, all history and all occurances leading up to the rebellion, it ignores the reasons for the rebellion.
It ignores everything that is known except for your preferred Protestant martyr narrative.It is dishonest, unintelligent, and ridiculous, and until you at least attempt to read what people have posted dies not warrant further response.

and that is why you will remain ignorant.idiot.