Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 80 (8898 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 03-25-2019 5:50 AM
19 online now:
akitaa, Phat (AdminPhat), yorkiee (3 members, 16 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: WookieeB
Post Volume:
Total: 848,631 Year: 3,668/19,786 Month: 663/1,087 Week: 32/221 Day: 3/29 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
105106107
108
109110Next
Author Topic:   Oh No, The New Awesome Primary Thread
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 1606 of 1639 (788194)
07-26-2016 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1599 by Lammy
07-26-2016 3:26 PM


Because Gore was a more viable candidate than Nader ever was.

That makes it Nader's fault that Gore lost?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1599 by Lammy, posted 07-26-2016 3:26 PM Lammy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1607 by Lammy, posted 07-26-2016 8:56 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Lammy
Member
Posts: 3607
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1607 of 1639 (788195)
07-26-2016 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1606 by New Cat's Eye
07-26-2016 7:39 PM


Since you've decided to play dense, I can play dense, too.

I hold Nader personally responsible for all the lives lost in Iraq.


If you say the word "gullible" slowly, it sounds like oranges. Go ahead and try it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1606 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-26-2016 7:39 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1608 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-27-2016 9:12 AM Lammy has not yet responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 1608 of 1639 (788210)
07-27-2016 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 1607 by Lammy
07-26-2016 8:56 PM


Since you've decided to play dense, I can play dense, too.

I'm not playing, you're really not making sense to me.

I hold Nader personally responsible for all the lives lost in Iraq.

Yes, you've already said that. That is what I am asking about.

Your position seems to be this: If Candidate C was less viable than Candidate B, and Candidate C did not stop running, then Candidate C is personally responsible for the lives lost in the war that Candidate A started.

Do I have that right?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1607 by Lammy, posted 07-26-2016 8:56 PM Lammy has not yet responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 813
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1609 of 1639 (788578)
08-02-2016 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1574 by Diomedes
06-29-2016 6:25 PM


A Perfect Summary
I came across this post on Yahoo that I thought was the perfect summary of the current election. I can't link to it directly, so I cut and pasted the content here. Thought it was worth sharing.

quote:

What we're seeing here is the result of the American political center moving to the right for the last thirty-five years. Hilary Clinton, a former Goldwater Girl, is for all intents and purposes a Reagan Republican. In fact, if Ronald Reagan were running for president today, by his policies, he'd be marked as a Democrat.

Trump is the result of the constant dog-whistle Republicans have been blowing since President Obama was first elected. They've called him a "secret Muslim", they say he's not American. They consistently highlight his middle name to make him sound more "other" by repeating and emphasizing the "Hussein" in his name. Trump is who you people deserve.

We're only fifty years removed from the end of the civil rights era. Does the fact that racism still exists really surprise anyone? Is there any doubt that both Trump, and Clinton have used the N word several times over the course of their lives; just like Miss Teen USA Karlie Hay's ignorant ass?

People who say that the two parties are basically the same are both right and wrong.

Democrats are pro-BIG-Business, that believe in using tax dollars to fund infrastructure and innovation in new technologies, and tax breaks for big Wall Street Banks, defense contractors, and Big Pharma.

Republicans are Pro-BIG-Business that believes that to tax is to steal from the hard working corporations that bring you Guns, Germs, and Steel.

Where they differ is in our social ideology. I mean, if we're going to take it up the butt from Big Business anyway, we might as well pick the party with the most people friendly policies.

Far Right Republicans are pro-life, until you're born or you're a fuzzy brown foreigner, then they'd just assume bomb you.
They're for religious freedom, unless that means your freedom FROM religion. Or you're LGBTQ and want to get married, or you're an atheist and want to get married.

Far Right Republicans are all about personal freedoms, unless you're a woman, then get in the kitchen and pump out some babies.

Those are your choices, America:
A crooked lifetime politician who pretty much everyone agrees is corrupt as hell, and cackles like a hyena when you ask to see the transcripts of her Wall Street speeches.
-Or-
An orange baboon that barely has sense enough to throw poop properly. The billionaire that would have more money right now, if he'd just taken his inheritance and indexed it to the S&P500, and has also had five bankruptcies. People that like him only do so because he warms rotten little racist corners of their hearts. They think he hates immigrants and black people, so they love him for it, regardless of how idiotic and small fingered the man is.

Good job, America, you really do get what you deserve.



This message is a reply to:
 Message 1574 by Diomedes, posted 06-29-2016 6:25 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1610 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-04-2016 4:50 PM Diomedes has not yet responded
 Message 1611 by NoNukes, posted 08-04-2016 7:56 PM Diomedes has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1401
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 1610 of 1639 (788786)
08-04-2016 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1609 by Diomedes
08-02-2016 11:25 AM


Re: A Perfect Summary 4 polls out today (8/4/16) show a 1% to 4% lead for Hillary.
ursday, August 4
Race/Topic (Click to Sort) Poll Results Spread
General Election: Trump vs. Clinton Reuters/Ipsos Clinton 43, Trump 39 Clinton +4
General Election: Trump vs. Clinton LA Times/USC Clinton 45, Trump 44 Clinton +1
General Election: Trump vs. Clinton vs. Johnson vs. Stein Rasmussen Reports Clinton 44, Trump 40, Johnson 6, Stein 3 Clinton +4
General Election: Trump vs. Clinton vs. Johnson vs. Stein Reuters/Ipsos Clinton 42, Trump 38, Johnson 6, Stein 2 Clinton +4

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

Sad that you have a general election candidate that can't beat Hillary.

Even more telling that Hillary is only marginally ahead of Trump, who has about a 33% approval rating (like 61% negative I think).

Within the polling margin of error in all four.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1609 by Diomedes, posted 08-02-2016 11:25 AM Diomedes has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(4)
Message 1611 of 1639 (788796)
08-04-2016 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1609 by Diomedes
08-02-2016 11:25 AM


Re: A Perfect Summary
I came across this post on Yahoo that I thought was the perfect summary of the current election. I can't link to it directly, so I cut and pasted the content here. Thought it was worth sharing.

I will be voting based on a single issue this year and that is the issue of who gets to make appointments to the Supreme Court and the rest of the federal bench. There is no question for me of which presidential candidate I want to see making those appointments, or which senators I will support in the elections to come. Almost certainly, the next president will be picking at least two, and most probably three Justices.

As an example:

The NC voter ID law specifically targeted democratic voters by removing polling places for college students and African Americans, not allowing state issued college student ids to be used for voting while accepting gun permits and reducing early voting days. The legislature actually used racial democratic data to identify which poling places to close and which measures to adopt. The federal district court judge saw nothing wrong with any of that. Fortunately, the judges on the Fourth Circuit judges had no problem looking at the trees and finding a forest. The Fifth Circuit similarly found identical problems in Texas.

The federal courts in this area also deal with racially gerrymandered districts which have result in state legislatures that are heavily republican despite the fact that the state is nearly evenly split during national contests.

If you are at all interested in having Citzens United overturned, or ensuring that Roe V. Wade and Obergefell v. Hodges remain the law of the land, you cannot allow Trump and his 'party of Lincoln' to be the folks who selects and confirm judges for the Supreme Court, the federal circuit courts, or even the federal district courts. In my opinion, the issue of Justice/judge selection alone is too important to ignore. In my opinion, we cannot trust even Libertarians to do the right thing is this area. I'm sorry that we don't have Bernie to rely on, but there is no way at this point, that I'd vote for anyone other than Clinton.

Far Right Republicans are all about personal freedoms, unless you're a woman, then get in the kitchen and pump out some babies.

Exactly. Republicans are about the personal freedoms that existed in the 1950s and to hell with any of those new fangled, liberal freedoms gained in the 1960s, 1970s; and especially not anything we recognized in this century.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1609 by Diomedes, posted 08-02-2016 11:25 AM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1612 by Diomedes, posted 08-05-2016 10:11 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 813
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 1.9


(3)
Message 1612 of 1639 (788822)
08-05-2016 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1611 by NoNukes
08-04-2016 7:56 PM


Re: A Perfect Summary
I will be voting based on a single issue this year and that is the issue of who gets to make appointments to the Supreme Court and the rest of the federal bench.

That is one of my main considerations as well. And I will be honest, if the Dems retake the senate, I hope they nominate the most left wing, retired-hippie justice they can find. They threw the Republicans a bone when they put forth Garland. Someone who the Republicans themselves said was more than qualified. And they just sulked and sad no. Well, you made your beds. Now lay in them.

The other two big issues from my perspective when it comes to how I vote are:

1. Obamacare (aka The Affordable Care Act) - The only thing keeping it in check now is the presidential veto. Unless the Dems retake the senate.

2. Climate Change - This was mentioned several times at the DNC. It was not mentioned ONCE at the RNC. I live in Florida and I don't have any desire to be underwater in the next few decades. And I doubt my idiot of a governor Rick Scott is going to be doing anything about it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1611 by NoNukes, posted 08-04-2016 7:56 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1613 by jar, posted 08-05-2016 10:33 AM Diomedes has not yet responded
 Message 1614 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-05-2016 10:42 AM Diomedes has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 1613 of 1639 (788824)
08-05-2016 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1612 by Diomedes
08-05-2016 10:11 AM


Re: A Perfect Summary
That's why Georgia is so much more progressive than Florida. IIRC the Chatham county commissioners passed a resolution opposing sea level rise back in the 1990s. Should have called it the Canute Resolution.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1612 by Diomedes, posted 08-05-2016 10:11 AM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1401
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 1614 of 1639 (788825)
08-05-2016 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1612 by Diomedes
08-05-2016 10:11 AM


Diomedes said the Courts, Health Care, and Climate Change are his 3 issues.
On the courts, Hillary getting elected in 2016 will guarantee a GOP win in 2020, so I fail to see how that will help you get your picks. And she said she will appoint that corrupt bastard (from the Oklahoma City trial) Garland. He is about the same in ideology as the typical Reagan/Bush judge.

On Health Care, the individual mandate (plus other mandates) is an issue that people have come to hate as they learn about it (and have to pay the big tax/fine while still not getting insurance), so how will that help anybody but the GOP? Fundamentally, the GOP is the biggest beneficiary of the Affordable Care Act. The individual mandate was the GOP brainchild from the 1990s and have been ever since (Romney championed it the entire decade of the aughts, including as Governor). Romney lost to Obama (for many reasons he could have avoided including his support/championing of the mandate) because people had no candidate who opposed the mandate. And that was before the awful thing even kicked in. Hillary, in 2007/2008 became the first ever Democrat to support the (essentially)right-wing individual mandate. And Obama fought her tooth and nails (2007 to 2008) on the issue, correctly pointing out that it will make it HARDER for people to fund their healthcare. He understated it then, but in August of 2009, he caved in to the right-wing (and special interests that are non-ideological but supportive of the right on this issue) on the issue. The special interest triumphed over the public interest. One liberal democratic congressman (from Cleveland) correctly called the Affordable Care Act a "bailout for the insurance companies", but it was even worse as it a bailout that just kills poor and lower income folks with the mandate.

Electorally, the individual mandate will be the gift that keeps on giving - especially in midterm elections. Unless the mandate is repealed, then the GOP will gain 10-12 Senate seats in 2018. Also, don't forget this. Many Democratic Senators won (very narrowly) in 2012 because Obama opposed gun control (even after the "Batman" shooting in the summer of 2012), but he came out in favor of gun control in December (post-election lol). Trump supports mental health discrimination and background checks, so Hillary lucked out by having him defeat Cruz (who bucked his own part and fellow Senator John Cornyn by opposing the NRA, Obama and Hillary on the background checks). Even Rubio (who supports mental health discriminatory background checks) would have been much better than Trump - on the issue - because he is skilled enough as a politician to slam Hillary hard on other gun-related issues. Rubio is a good political marksman, though not in the GOP primary of course. 2018 Senate seats, Democrats narrowly won in 2012, like Montana, North Dakota, Missouri, Virginia, West Virginia, and others (maybe even Pennsylvania) will easily flip to the GOP.

On Climate Change, Trump is an unknown on that issue. He has only said that he will support policies that keep the 55,000 coal miners employed, but he hasn't said that he won't support win and solar. He might be even more supportive of wind and solar than Hillary (that isn't saying much, granted).

But anyway, the fact that Trump isn't making hay over the Supreme Court and the gun issue being in the balance (now 4-4!) is beyond me. He should be slaughtering her on this issue. He seems clueless. He really can't bet her easily in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Colorado, Florida, and North Carolina just on this one issue alone?

Then again, the fact that he seems so clueless, in the general election (though he did good in the primary thanks to Chris Christie taking down Rubio in the New Hampshire debate), causes one to be even more amazed that Hillary is having so much trouble (The fact that she is so out of touch with human beings & humanity in general is the OBVIOUS answer to the question, but still Trump has a negative to positive ratio of like 2-1).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1612 by Diomedes, posted 08-05-2016 10:11 AM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1615 by NoNukes, posted 08-05-2016 1:49 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded
 Message 1616 by Diomedes, posted 08-05-2016 2:55 PM LamarkNewAge has responded
 Message 1618 by NoNukes, posted 08-05-2016 6:05 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(4)
Message 1615 of 1639 (788836)
08-05-2016 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1614 by LamarkNewAge
08-05-2016 10:42 AM


Re: Diomedes said the Courts, Health Care, and Climate Change are his 3 issues.
But anyway, the fact that Trump isn't making hay over the Supreme Court and the gun issue being in the balance (now 4-4!) is beyond me. He should be slaughtering her on this issue. He seems clueless. He really can't bet her easily in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Colorado, Florida, and North Carolina just on this one issue alone?

It is still too early to predict the outcome of the election. But as of lately, Trump is averaging about one serious gaffe today each of which seems to cost him some support. Lots of fairly prominent, lifetime republicans have indicated that they intend to vote against him.

But Trump is simply not in any position to nominate what I would consider an acceptable replacement for say, Ginsberg who will almost certainly retire during the next term.

In the courts, Hillary getting elected in 2016 will guarantee a GOP win in 2020, so I fail to see how that will help you get your picks

Really? I'll take my chances.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1614 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-05-2016 10:42 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 813
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 1.9


(4)
Message 1616 of 1639 (788843)
08-05-2016 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1614 by LamarkNewAge
08-05-2016 10:42 AM


Re: Diomedes said the Courts, Health Care, and Climate Change are his 3 issues.
On the courts, Hillary getting elected in 2016 will guarantee a GOP win in 2020, so I fail to see how that will help you get your picks

I think it is pretty presumptuous to make that claim at this stage. Who knows what the landscape of politics will look like in four years. But keep in mind, it is very difficult to unseat a sitting president. So barring some massive faux pas on Hillary's part during her first term, it will be difficult for the Republicans to muster someone to beat her.

Consider that if Trump loses, the next in line in the list of batshit crazy alternatives is Ted Cruz. I hardly consider him a threat. The Republicans have a mini civil war going on in their midst. That will not be easy to mitigate.

But as NoNukes stated, our choices are someone who is partially corrupt and is in bed with Wall Street, but at least supports policies that are more liberal from the standpoint of climate change and health care or an orange baboon that is so thinned skinned that he gets into Twitter wars with every internet troll on the planet. Someone who Putin would love to see in office and someone who is completely daft on the concepts of foreign policy or domestic issues. And is only quasi-knowledgeable on economics.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1614 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-05-2016 10:42 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1617 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-05-2016 4:03 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1401
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 1617 of 1639 (788847)
08-05-2016 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1616 by Diomedes
08-05-2016 2:55 PM


Re: Diomedes said the Courts, Health Care, and Climate Change are his 3 issues.
quote:

Someone who Putin would love to see in office

Who knows where Putin stands.

He liked the Soviet Union's larger borders, and didn't like the collapse very much.

He attempted to have Russia join the E.U. up until abut 2006.

Now he speaks like a Russian nationalist.

What does Putin want aside from opposition to NATO expansion?

I have no idea where he stands, and really the western media seems more pro-war than he is.

Putin is willing to use military force, but Russia is not expansionist. NATO, Turkey, and most Sunni Muslim (especially the theocratic nightmare states) states don't like him. Former Soviet nations mostly seem to dislike him. Are they all for the same (or even "right") reasons?

The western media makes Putin liking somebody seem a bad thing. It is really though?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1616 by Diomedes, posted 08-05-2016 2:55 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1619 by DrJones*, posted 08-05-2016 11:49 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 1618 of 1639 (788851)
08-05-2016 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1614 by LamarkNewAge
08-05-2016 10:42 AM


Re: Diomedes said the Courts, Health Care, and Climate Change are his 3 issues.
n Climate Change, Trump is an unknown on that issue. He has only said that he will support policies that keep the 55,000 coal miners employed

Trump is a denier of climate change and he hates windmills. Where do you get the idea that Trump's position on climate change is unknown?

quote:
The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1614 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-05-2016 10:42 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1806
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 1619 of 1639 (788855)
08-05-2016 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1617 by LamarkNewAge
08-05-2016 4:03 PM


Re: Diomedes said the Courts, Health Care, and Climate Change are his 3 issues.
Putin is willing to use military force, but Russia is not expansionist.

*cough* The Crimea *cough*


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1617 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-05-2016 4:03 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1620 by frako, posted 08-06-2016 3:38 AM DrJones* has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2813
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 1620 of 1639 (788860)
08-06-2016 3:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1619 by DrJones*
08-05-2016 11:49 PM


Re: Diomedes said the Courts, Health Care, and Climate Change are his 3 issues.
*cough* The Crimea *cough*

*Cough*referendum*cough*


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1619 by DrJones*, posted 08-05-2016 11:49 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1621 by vimesey, posted 08-06-2016 4:20 AM frako has responded
 Message 1626 by DrJones*, posted 08-06-2016 12:45 PM frako has responded

    
RewPrev1
...
105106107
108
109110Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019