Oh No, The New Awesome Primary Thread

Yeah, we keep wanting to talk about facts when you want to discuss fiction. That's so typical of the difference between leftists and righties. And since you have declared the fictional events in Trump's head to be the topic, so it must be, and only our mental problems keep us from taking his delusions seriously. But you'd still like me to do your research for you?Listen carefully. Whether or not Pershing's imaginary action in shooting the prisoners did or did not fall within the parameters of civilized warfare as understood in Pershing's day would depend on the exact facts of the situation. But there are no exact facts, because there was no situation. This is like trying to decide whether, when you killed the Emperor Napoleon, it was murder, manslaughter, or justifiable homicide. To decide this, we would need to know much more about the circumstances under which you killed Napoleon, we might even need to know your mental state when you did so. And the fact that you did not kill Napoleon makes these data extremely hard to acquire.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Remarkable. Endless excuses for missing the point.Yes I don't want to do the research myself. And I don't even really care if nobody else does either, it's just that I know there are much better researchers here than I'll ever be and research tires me out. But it would be nice if the task were at least understood.But alas the ways that can be found for evading the topic are legion.You want a real scenario but all we have is a fictional one, but there is no lack of detail from which to construct a putative reality that could be assessed by the real standards of Pershing's time. Except that for some reason you prefer to evade the task and keep on producing endless irrelevant posts.Oh well. I guess I can keep up the game too if I have to. For a while anyway.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Yes there is. Trump's ramblings were not detailed. Detail is not his mtier. The task of "constructing a putative reality" I leave up to you, Trump, and any other right-wing loonies who want to have at it.

There is enough information to go on of course in the scenario you claim is not detailed enough.Anyway: This is a hard subject to research as I expected. I want to know how laws dealing with enemies may be different since Pershing's time. Googling various aspects of the issue gets one into the Geneva Conventions and their applicability to various situations. Such as:The Heritage Foundation | The Heritage FoundationIt defines what a POW is in such a way as to suggest there are captured enemies who aren't considered POWs, but pinning it down eludes me so far. Military trials are the rule, certainly NOT trial by US civilian courts. And there are some hostile entities who are not entitled to its protections: So I have no idea whether IF Pershing did execute some Muslims on the spot where they murdered a whole village that would have been a violation of anything having to do with the Geneva convention or general humane rules of combat. For a recent example, seems to me a lot of Muslim killings don't fit the conditions listed above. What that means about how they are to be treated would take a lot more study -- I should say how they WERE to be treated in Pershing's time.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Some of it is true (dipping rounds in pig's blood to metaphorically send them to hell), but lining people up for execution and LOL! allowing the 50th to live is something Trump watched in Inglorious Basterds. Never fucking happened.

Yeah, I pointed that out a couple of times.

I maintain, that it is how they are to be treated in our time that is relevant. Imagine that instead of telling a story about Pershing in 1911, Trump related a story about something Alexander the Great did, and suggest that we do the same. Wouldn't the implications of his recommendations best be judged on today's standard and his speech be at best a request to bring back the good old days? Actually, the idea that the story was "probably" fiction really was not acknowledged by you. Up until know we have statements ranging from leftists are the only ones saying it is false up until there is some question regarding the truth. See below: I might also point out that there is a huge jump between not treating captures as POWs and executing them on the spot. There is a reason why we used that prison in Guantanamo Bay.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

NoNukes, remember you're trying to argue with someone who thinks that it's Okie Dokie to own slaves.

You claimed that the debunking of the story happened after Trump brought it up and was carried out by evil liberals.That is false. Proven twice over.Will you acknowledge that?

I seee they didn't bother to mention the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, comonly known as the Fourth Geneva Convention.

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Part I. General Provisions[edit]
This sets out the overall parameters for GCIV:

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Article 2 states that signatories are bound by the convention both in war, armed conflicts where war has not been declared, and in an occupation of another country's territory.

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Article 3 states that even where there is not a conflict of international character, the parties must as a minimum adhere to minimal protections described as: non-combatants, members of armed forces who have laid down their arms, and combatants who are hors de combat (out of the fight) due to wounds, detention, or any other cause shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, with the following prohibitions:

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(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
(b) taking of hostages;
(c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment
(d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

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Article 4 defines who is a Protected person: Persons protected by the Convention are those who, at a given moment and in any manner whatsoever, find themselves, in case of a conflict or occupation, in the hands of a Party to the conflict or Occupying Power of which they are not nationals. But it explicitly excludes Nationals of a State which is not bound by the Convention and the citizens of a neutral state or an allied state if that state has normal diplomatic relations within the State in whose hands they are.

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A number of articles specify how Protecting Powers, ICRC and other humanitarian organizations may aid Protected persons.

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Article 5 provides for the suspension of persons' rights under the Convention for the duration of time that this is "prejudicial to the security of such State", although "such persons shall nevertheless be treated with humanity and, in case of trial, shall not be deprived of the rights of fair and regular trial prescribed by the present Convention."

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Protected person is the most important definition in this section because many of the articles in the rest of GCIV only apply to Protected persons.

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There's lots more.Wonder why the Heritage Foundation left out hat obviously apropos refererence?Edited by JonF, : Added emphasis

Trump easily won the Nevada Republican caucuses: Some have expressed doubt that the Pershing discussion is on topic. I believe it is. There are a couple core issues. One is whether it is right to murder prisoners without due process and do we want a president who believes it is.The other is more fundamental to a moral democracy. What methods can a moral democracy employ in its defense against a power with no morals, but still legitimately maintain its claim to morality?

Not really, but if you insist I can add a few details and construct a "putative reality".On the fateful morning of April 5th, 1911, a group of about 50 Filipino women and children approached Pershing's encampment with the shy request that they might gaze upon that imperishable symbol of liberty, the American flag. His second in command roused "Black Jack" Pershing from his sodden alcoholic stupor and disentangled his limbs from those of his underage prostitute. Staggering bleary-eyed from his tent, the enraged General glared at the natives and slurred: "Terrorishts! They're all terrorishts! Bring me my pig'sh-blood bulletsh!" His aide-de-camp (a grovelling toady) complied, and before the appalled eyes of his soldiers, "Black Jack" murdered the Filipinos in what is even today remembered with horror as the putatively real Massacre of Mindanao.I think what he did was wrong, how about you? But it's so typical of Trump to admire a man of this stamp.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Page not found - MSN

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Ted Cruz’s presidential bid is in turmoil after repeated allegations of unsavory campaign tactics by his Republican rivals, leading some key supporters to call for a shake-up in the candidate’s message and strategy a week ahead of the crucial Super Tuesday primaries.

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I expected this stuff would not get much play. But apparently that is not the case.

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But with the Republican campaign in a new national phase, a Cruz aide acknowledged that the shouts of liar could have far-reaching implications for a candidate who touts his slogan TrusTed.

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For some supporters, some of the alleged dirty tricks including a photo on a website created by the Cruz campaign that digitally added Rubio’s head onto the body of a man shaking hands with President Obama were too much.

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And of course there is this for you PC haters....Cruz Campaign Pulls Work from Controversial Artist Sabo | The Texas Tribune

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Ted Cruz's presidential campaign removed items from its online store Tuesday from an artist with a history of making controversial, and at times racist, statements online.

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he page on the Cruz website that previously sold "Sabo Gear" including posters, buttons and T-shirts, redirected to an error message Tuesday morning. Cruz's campaign did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

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Sabo's Twitter and Facebook feeds includes derogatory comments about blacks, Mexicans and Muslims and repeated references to the assassination of President Barack Obama. When asked by the Tribune in September if Cruz was comfortable with some of Sabo's controversial statements on social media, the Cruz campaign declined comment.

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Sabo told the Tribune last year that he was surprised that Cruz had been willing to associate with him and my own, non-PC, dirty mouth."

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Edited by Admin, : Fix quote.

It will be interesting to see the results of S.Carolina and compare them to New Hampshire as a model of the general election (and of head-to-head comparisons)Path to Victory | HuffPost Latest News

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Wading through the Internet you can find more of the same stuff going on. Point is, the Democrats have made the GOP's case for Voter ID. Voter fraud is there. The DNC is using it for Hillary's advantage. If you are going to use the caucus process to actually help select the president, then it has to be done right.

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Same holds true for primaries, so I expect some more skulduggery from the Clinton Machine and the DNC.

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There is another reason why it is way too early to bury Bernie. Take a look at the New Hampshire primary results. This was an open primary; meaning anyone could vote for anyone they want.

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According to Aristotle.com the New Hampshire population breaks down as follows:

GOP = 221, 984 Voters or 31%
Democrats = 190,712 or 26%
Everyone else = 307,119 or 43%

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It is the independent voters that decide the elections, this has been consistently the case for some time now -- each party is not enough to win on their own.One thing to note is that Sanders beats Trump and Trump beats Hillary and the rest are in single digits (few independent supporters?)The primary this Saturday will not include independents (unless they register as democrats) so it will be hard to get a similar picture by combining the GOP and DEM primary results.Enjoy.

Totally on topic post that gets directly to the issues involved.[/sarcasm]