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Author Topic:   Climate Change Denier comes in from the cold: SCIENCE!!!
Phat
Member
Posts: 15147
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 399 of 824 (822852)
11-02-2017 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by RAZD
01-02-2016 11:36 AM


Climate Is Warming And Humans Are The Cause
RAZD writes:

So one would have to be a moron to continue to argue natural causes are having a significant effect on the data.

Note that they include aerosols which were banned to prevent ozone depletion and their reduction in use leads to negative warming trends -- evidence that we CAN affect the results with appropriate action.

My advice to those in fossil fuel industries is to get out and get involved in alternatives. My house is now grid-free from electricity, and by next year I plan to be off gas (converting my heating system to electric hot water powered by my solar panels).

Every day that passes just brings more confirmation of global climate change, sadly, it seems, at an increasing rate.

This just in:
Massive Government Report Says Climate Is Warming And Humans Are The Cause

Comments?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

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Phat
Member
Posts: 15147
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 449 of 824 (824874)
12-04-2017 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 403 by NoNukes
11-03-2017 12:33 PM


Re: Climate Is Warming And Humans Are The Cause
NN writes:

Absent the science, and the government report is simply a report of the consensus among scientists, I would suggest that the fact that humans are the driver of global client change is not obvious.

Lots of things obvious to scientists are not obvious to people on the street.

As I have said before, the real issue is not whether the warming is happening globally. The issue is a struggle of control over the solutions. One side wants governments to do something. The other side (Trumps) wants governments to butt out and focus on doing their job.

Trust me, Trump is already eyeing the possible investment opportunities to be made through climate change-related business activity.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

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 Message 403 by NoNukes, posted 11-03-2017 12:33 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

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Phat
Member
Posts: 15147
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 451 of 824 (824881)
12-04-2017 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 450 by Taq
12-04-2017 4:25 PM


Re: Climate Is Warming And Humans Are The Cause
The Republicans likely fear higher taxes on themselves to remedy the solution...they would rather let private enterprise fix the planet.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 450 by Taq, posted 12-04-2017 4:25 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 452 by Taq, posted 12-04-2017 4:51 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15147
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 457 of 824 (830268)
03-26-2018 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 454 by jar
03-25-2018 8:32 AM


Responsibility. The Buck Stops Here
Tis an early morning where I awoke with pain in my feet, which ironically is a mixed blessing...pain means feeling, and feeling means hope. So I read the last 4 or 5 posts of this topic...and in the meantime was thinking of what the theme of climate change should be.
jar brought up Bhopal and since I had never paid attention to any news that never benefitted me personally, never really heard about the Bhopal disaster apart from just another disaster in the news, as I was around 25 years old at that time and much too narcissistic regarding my own life at the time to give it more than a passing thought.

This is likely true even today for much of the American public. They regard news as infotainment and only see it in the eyes of what benefits them personally...oblivious to the deaths and harms caused to others in faraway places....even Houston was too far away for many of us during the last hurricane, after all. And yet the keyword regarding the whole issue of climate change is responsibility. Obviously, we cannot control the weather, despite what HAARP conspiracy theorists assert, ( ) and yet the bottom line is what we the people can and should be responsible for. Union Carbide shirked responsibility for their disaster, yet ended up paying costly fines for their part in that disaster.

Human error was responsible, and bills will get paid whenever harm is done to other humans (usually, anyway) the driverless car scenarios being a current case-in-point.

Faith writes:

Does it (the climate change report) cover the American food industry, especially the meat industry, which according to many of the films I've mentioned on the natural foods thread is the biggest contributor to climate change of all of them.

Again, the report merely informs us of the known facts and leaves the conclusion open to public discussion.
We are responsible as a species for doing the best that we can for the interests of all of us and not simply Americans, Union Carbide, or Tyson, JBS, or Cargill.

Politically, the debate will continue over whether the government should enforce basic standards and responsibilities or whether the people themselves should give the government a mandate for doing so.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 454 by jar, posted 03-25-2018 8:32 AM jar has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15147
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 458 of 824 (830269)
03-26-2018 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 456 by frako
03-26-2018 9:41 AM


Re: Climate Science Special Report
frako writes:

Trying to get meat off of peoples tables is even harder than trying to take their gas away. The only real solution would be depopulation there are at least 4 billion too many of us.

We are the last generation that parties like there is no tomorrow, the ones that come after us will know only hunger and suffering because we fucked up their planet.

I hope that what you say isn't prophetically true. I personally have no offspring, but I certainly wouldn't want to leave a messed up planet as a legacy for the future simply so that I may be a glutton in the present. The whole climate change issue is mired in political brinksmanship. There needs to be an agreement between the parties---a consensus on what to do about an issue that quite obviously exists. Many will continue denying reality, labeling it fake news and justifying their support of the corporations that care only for short-term profits and have no conscience regarding steps to be taken to ensure a sustainable future for their offspring. After all, if corporations are legally a person, they logically should have offspring.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 456 by frako, posted 03-26-2018 9:41 AM frako has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15147
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 573 of 824 (870397)
01-18-2020 3:37 PM


Kids Sue the Government Over Climate change
Heres one for the books:
Kids' Climate Case 'Reluctantly' Dismissed By Appeals Court

32 page opinion by judges


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


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Phat
Member
Posts: 15147
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 574 of 824 (870864)
01-25-2020 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 573 by Phat
01-18-2020 3:37 PM


An Inconvenient Truth
As everyone knows, I am a Christian believer who actually thinks that much of the Bible is spot on in regards to predicting future global scenarios of war, human conflict, and underlying "supernatural" influence. If we take away the idea that a global leader will be possessed by the dark side and that Jesus will have to come back to stop mass extinction, what then do we have left? People behaving badly. And what does the evidence show? I continue to read articles about global migration, climate change, and the realistic impacts of this.
The climate crisis, migration, and refugees
quote:
This global challenge has and will continue to create a multitude of critical issues that the international community must confront, including:

  • Large-scale human migration due to resource scarcity, increased frequency of extreme weather events, and other factors, particularly in the developing countries in the earth’s low latitudinal band
  • Intensifying intra- and inter-state competition for food, water, and other resources, particularly in the Middle East and North Africa
  • Increased frequency and severity of disease outbreaks
  • Increased U.S. border stress due to the severe effects of climate change in parts of Central America
    All of these challenges are serious, but the scope and scale of human migration due to climate change will test the limits of national and global governance as well as international cooperation.
  • Knowing human nature as I do, particularly the insidiousness of climate change denial, I see these future challenges as basically insurmountable beyond personal necessity and a trigger for the apologetic predictions of a global conflict between good and evil.

    Note too that there are no villains and saved crusaders battling in this armageddon conflict. There are merely nations fighting other nations. God and the Demons may as well not even be involved...for the people seem bent on waging war anyway.

    Thus, adding to the practical list of future challenges, we will be faced with an ambitious human psychological makeover.


    “The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”lvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15147
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 577 of 824 (870906)
    01-26-2020 11:27 AM
    Reply to: Message 576 by Tangle
    01-26-2020 3:34 AM


    Re: An Inconvenient Truth
    OK, I get your point. We all should focus on action and optimism and throw the ancient made up warnings away, right? But what about the modern scientific ones?
    Little Greta said it first: Why is nobody doing anything? Seems to me that human nature is self-destructive.

    “The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”lvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 576 by Tangle, posted 01-26-2020 3:34 AM Tangle has responded

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15147
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 610 of 824 (871854)
    02-13-2020 3:42 PM
    Reply to: Message 578 by jar
    01-26-2020 12:13 PM


    Re: An Inconvenient Truth
    jar writes:

    It's easier to be unlearned than to learn.

    It's also easier to maintain comfort (even if the process dooms the future) than it is to toughen up and do the hard work. I am 60 years old and not in the best of help. I just want to be comfortable in my declining years. I'm not at all ready to sacrifice too much. I enjoy hot water. I enjoy the freedom of mobility. I enjoy a comfortable bed and a warm house. To me, these are inalienable rights. And yes, I will be honest. I fear sharing what we have with the whole world because we will have less than we had before. You call it greed--I call it an entitlement. There. I've confessed that sin.

    “The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

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     Message 578 by jar, posted 01-26-2020 12:13 PM jar has responded

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15147
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    (1)
    Message 624 of 824 (872186)
    02-21-2020 10:00 PM
    Reply to: Message 623 by Percy
    02-20-2020 7:02 AM


    'Antarctica Melts,' NASA Says Today.
    'Antarctica Melts,' NASA Says, Showing Effects Of A Record Warm Spell from NPR.

    I am beginning to think that this whole global warming thing is even more serious than previously thought and will lead to competition and even conflict in the world.

    We Americans will cooperate, but we won't bear the brunt of the cost. Everyone is in this together and China should, in fact, pay most of the bill since they have most of the people.

    “The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 623 by Percy, posted 02-20-2020 7:02 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15147
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 721 of 824 (884603)
    02-26-2021 9:00 AM
    Reply to: Message 720 by Taq
    02-25-2021 4:12 PM


    Re: An Inconvenient Truth -- still true
    This is interesting. I was looking for any insight from sources other than the United States.
    Is climate change the Armageddon foretold to the world? A review Annual Congress on Environmental Pollution and Sustainable Energy
    July 20-22, 2017 Melbourne, Australia
    quote:
    Abstract :
    Statement of the Problem: Climate change impact reveals how man has destroyed earth through burning of fossil fuel and depletion of natural resources. These activities may have worsened and altered the ecological biosphere by causing changes in all the climate entities. This extreme phenomenon called climate change has a negative impact on health. The aim of this paper is to encourage global and national proactive policies and strategic approaches towards tackling climate change. Methodology: This study involved screening of articles that primarily discussed climate change and its consequences. Articles used for this research came from scientific search engines, research journals, newspapers, TV reporting, textbooks and international agencies' reports on climate change.

    Findings: This article identified the causes of climate change and its consequences to mankind. It equally noted the evolving human attitude towards other species and to follow humans manifesting in various forms as extreme violent conflicts, negative laws that hampers the effort to mitigate its impact, as they compete for the depleting natural resources. Further, juxtaposing these thoughts with what should be our urgent action plan to mitigate or manage possible consequences of climate change effects. Though the concept of using technology through Geo-engineering system to create a climatic condition conducive for human existence seems promising for future, but promoting healthy lifestyles and public awareness to mitigating the climate change effect still remain a realistic approach in the interim while we encourage innovative energy efficient and renewable technology.

    Conclusion & Significance: This paper also is intended to contribute to the existing knowledge on climate change while creating awareness on the need to regulate human activities to prevent the likely extinction of life form on earth while providing a collaborative ideas or solutions for developing nations especially to attain sustainable ecological development through adaption and mitigation.


    Note the credentials of the editorial panel and how diverse they are.

    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 720 by Taq, posted 02-25-2021 4:12 PM Taq has not yet responded

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15147
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    (1)
    Message 735 of 824 (884687)
    03-03-2021 10:54 AM
    Reply to: Message 734 by ringo
    03-02-2021 11:11 AM


    Re: An Inconvenient Truth -- still true
    Not that I am agreeing with the political ideologies of marc9000 but I think that his point is that we the people will never regress in history and become Quakers simply to "save the planet". There will always...ALWAYS be a selfish group of people (likely close to 30% or more) who will keep using fossil fuels to "fuel" their lifestyle. This figure may hold true globally and not just in the United States. There will always be division in the global population over what we order ourselves to do.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 734 by ringo, posted 03-02-2021 11:11 AM ringo has responded

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     Message 736 by ringo, posted 03-03-2021 11:15 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15147
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 738 of 824 (884692)
    03-03-2021 3:19 PM
    Reply to: Message 737 by dwise1
    03-03-2021 2:04 PM


    Re: An Inconvenient Truth -- still true
    dwise1 writes:

    Now the Global Change Game is not the world stage, university students are not world leaders, and starting a nuclear holocaust in a gymnasium is not the same thing as launching real missiles from Siberia and North Dakota. So the students’ behavior on those two successive nights in 1994 provides little basis for drawing conclusions about the future of the planet. But some of what happened in this experiment rang true to me. I especially thought, “I’ve seen this show before” as I sat on the sidelines and watched the high RWAs create their very own October crisis.

    No, but it describes fairly thoroughly the differences between left and right wing thinking...at least in regards o Authoritarian tendencies. Each side tends to believe stereotypes about the other side. In general,however, one group believs in caring for the group (of humanity on the planet) above their own self interests. The other side does not...but not simply because they are selfish or power hungry. The Hight RWA believe that it is detrimental to be forced to arrive at a consensus that impinges on personal freedom. What would happen, for instance, if the majority was poor and needed a lions share of the funds shared? That does not sound fair and equitable to me, and I wouldn't automatically believe that Jesus would support it. It may well be that He would hope that the RWA group freely chose to be altruistic but He would never force the issue.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 737 by dwise1, posted 03-03-2021 2:04 PM dwise1 has responded

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15147
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 779 of 824 (884832)
    03-09-2021 11:11 PM
    Reply to: Message 778 by AZPaul3
    03-09-2021 2:26 PM


    Far Right vs Far Left Ideology
    Im generalizing somewhat...but by and large:

    The Right believes that Jesus will return, but before that we will have wars and rumors of wars. The love of many will grow cold. Many will fall away from the "faith". There will be a false prophet and a false Christ/leaderlike character. There will be a one world government and this charismatic leader will lead the way unifying the globe.

    The Left believes that global warming is inevitable and will cause tension and perhaps wars among the global population competing for resources. Science supports this belief...it is more akin to fact.

    So what do both scenarios have in common?

  • Possiblke wars and rumors of wars.
  • competition for diminishing resources.
  • Displacement of large areas of population.
  • The need for consensus and common unity.

    Comments, Mr. Deity?


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 778 by AZPaul3, posted 03-09-2021 2:26 PM AZPaul3 has responded

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15147
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 782 of 824 (884836)
    03-10-2021 11:10 AM
    Reply to: Message 781 by jar
    03-10-2021 7:00 AM


    Re: Far Right vs Far Left Ideology
    For you to even say that Jesus is a human creation betrays your claim to being Christian. But we've argued this stuff ad nauseum. To limit the character to the book and then challenge the Gospel Of John while keeping your favorite Matthew 24-25 interpretation is a selective and weak argument. God stepped in once...through His Son. Personally I aree with you that we will be judged according to how we handle our "charge" or our responsibility. Break that word esponsibility down. God has and had the ability to commune with humanity. It is our response to His ability that we will be judged by. He owes us no rescue apart from saving our souls should He wish.

    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 781 by jar, posted 03-10-2021 7:00 AM jar has not yet responded

      
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