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Author Topic:   Climate Change Denier comes in from the cold: SCIENCE!!!
frako
Member
Posts: 2931
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 43 of 881 (750000)
02-11-2015 6:11 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by marc9000
02-10-2015 7:39 PM


Have you ever sat in line in a auto emissions testing lane?

Well yes i have to do it every year now since my car is a bit older no biggie.

Climategate

Really bro you still stuck on that there was no fraud or cover up the just used actual measurements and not tree rings to determine the temperature from the 1950 onwards cause we fucked up the world so much by then they dint correlate anymore.

But none of that matters we are to late to change anything the world is going to shit as we speak, At the rate we would haveto cut emissions to make a dent we would be killing people because we would haveto deny them food, power, heat, ... But still less would die then if we do nothing. We already barely produce enough food for the whole world all we need is say one massive drought in America the worlds leading supplier of grain 30% and a whole bunch of the world is starving. OR a colapse of the oceans food chain as the oceans are getting more accidic by taking one more and more co2 plankton soon wont be able to survive wrecking the whole food chain. Oceans are the main source of food for many countries ....

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by marc9000, posted 02-10-2015 7:39 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by ringo, posted 02-11-2015 12:03 PM frako has responded
 Message 46 by RAZD, posted 02-11-2015 3:30 PM frako has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2931
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(4)
Message 45 of 881 (750049)
02-11-2015 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by ringo
02-11-2015 12:03 PM


2007 VW Passat comfortline 105 hp TDI

Dont mock the Yugo it has rear window warming to keep your hands warm when you are pushing it during winter.

I was involved in an accident when i was a kid my grandfather drove the best car ever built a VW Golf 2 the other guy was driving a Yugo arguably one of the worst cars ever built, you could see the engine of the yugo and the VW dint have a scratch on it.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by ringo, posted 02-11-2015 12:03 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2931
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 56 of 881 (750294)
02-13-2015 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by marc9000
02-12-2015 9:15 PM


You've never heard of auto emissions testing?

In my country in order to drive your car it has to be registered to register a car it has to meet or surpass some standards. So newer cars have to go trough a techical examination every 2 years, older cars every one year and old timers if they are driven for more then 4000 kilometers per year have to be tested every half year. They test your brakes, suspension, lights, .... and of course your emissions. If your car fails any test you cannot register your car, and if your car is not registered you cant legally drive it on public roads. (apart from passing your technical tests you have to pay the road usage tax and have your car insured to register your car.)

The Germans have some sticker system, you get a green yellow or red sticker depending on your cars emmision's, i think it works something like this, a green sticker can go anywhere a yellow one can go in to red zones and yellow zones, while red ones can only go in red zones. So city centers are not so filled up with smog.

Now i know your silly American mind must be screaming they are infringing on your freedomssssssssssssss, no people like you are infringing on my freedom to breathe fresh air


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by marc9000, posted 02-12-2015 9:15 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by NosyNed, posted 02-13-2015 9:02 AM frako has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2931
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 61 of 881 (750299)
02-13-2015 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by marc9000
02-12-2015 9:15 PM


It all comes down to physics.

Co2 is a greenhouse gas thats a fact we known that for over 100 years.
Mankind has been pumping co2 in to the atmosphere at an unprecedented rate. Also a fact.

The logical conclusion is that the earth will get warmer because of those 2 facts. The only thing left to argue about is how hot is it going to get.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by marc9000, posted 02-12-2015 9:15 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by marc9000, posted 02-14-2015 9:01 PM frako has responded
 Message 77 by foreveryoung, posted 02-15-2015 11:07 PM frako has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2931
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 64 of 881 (750318)
02-13-2015 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by NosyNed
02-13-2015 9:02 AM


Re: Testing
It was not worth the cost of running the testing centers under the new circumstances.

don't see it as any extra cost i have to get my car checked out before i can register it its just one extra stop at the testing lane. And the price for the whole battery of tests just basically follows inflation no real increase 40 EUR witch is a fraction of the total costs to get your car registered. The road tax depends on your HP for my 105 HP i pay around 200EUR. And the insurance costs me about 300 EUR but its minimal cause i dont cause accidents so i dont need any higher insurance and i have a 50% deduction cause im a good driver. My girlfrend had full kasko insurence the insurance pays for everything that happened no matter whose fault it was as long as you where not drunk/drugged and the damage is above 300 EUR worth but it cost her 1200 EUR and she had no deductions.

But yea its not as necessary as before as the main thing people look for when buying a new car in my country is fuel efficiency witch also translates in to less emissions. But fuel prices are dropping again and without such regulations we could be going back to the old days when the snow along the road was black.

However, I just had a thought. Are we getting by without screening for polluting cars because of rules and testing done in so many other places that keep the on road fleet cleaner for us. Are we sort of being anti-vaxers?

Well yea I think every country should screen their cars for pollution it would force car manufacturers to adhere to the highest standard in order to be able to sell their cars everywhere. Its like seat belts before there where laws demanding seat belts there where no seat belts in cars now every car has them.

The same principle could be applied to other polluters too, If say just the EU and the US the main consumers of the world agree on pollution standards and tax imports from higher polluters the world economy would have to adapt and pollute less.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by NosyNed, posted 02-13-2015 9:02 AM NosyNed has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by RAZD, posted 02-13-2015 1:08 PM frako has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2931
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(4)
Message 70 of 881 (750392)
02-15-2015 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by marc9000
02-14-2015 9:01 PM


OK Lets say everything you wrote is true and the whole global warming is a hoax , or just awsome for mankind. So doing nothing about it is the right call yey.

But if you are wrong humanity will be completely unprepared for the effects of global warming billions die the rest struggle to survive.

Now lets say everything i believe about global warming is true and we act on it, humanity switches to electric cars like the Tesla, we swich from coal plants to liquid thorium plants, or solar plants, or tidal plants, wind farms, we raise the standard on building permits so houses became energy neutral or produce power, smog clears from our cities, less polution also translates to better healthe ....

If i am wrong well gosh darni't we cleaned up our air, and lost our dependency on foreign oil for nothing.

Im willing to risk some smog turned to fresh air for no good reason if i am wrong, you are risking billions of lives.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by marc9000, posted 02-14-2015 9:01 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Theodoric, posted 02-15-2015 10:07 AM frako has not yet responded
 Message 73 by marc9000, posted 02-15-2015 9:04 PM frako has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2931
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 79 of 881 (750453)
02-16-2015 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by marc9000
02-15-2015 9:04 PM


"Billions of lives" - that's emotion, there's no evidence.

Well our archaeologist from the future could already say that this was the time of a mass extinction event, it just depends on our choices if the human species will be on the list of animals that went extinct.

Those things can eventually happen due to free market forces, not government mandates.

Free market forces are driven by profit there is no profit to be made in protecting the environment.

That would be beautiful in a perfect world. But it's not a perfect world, as the leadership of Cincinnati recently proved all too well.

Yea i know i really should stop putting my robot army idea to conquer the world so i can save it on the back burner. The events you describe sound to me someone wanted to siphon some money out of the governments pocket and this was his idea on how to do it. Its the cost of democracy your bound to get some thieves in to office.

If global warming was the only threat to mankind, you might have a point. But it's not, many are realistic enough to see that there are other potential problems, like economic meltdowns, terror attacks, wars, you know, things that history tells us can and have happened, and will happen again if identical mistakes are made. Then there are CURRENT, actual problems, like poverty, not only in the U.S. but around the world. History tells us that increasing productivity actually works, in reducing poverty. Redistributing income, reducing productivity, is largely what "doing something" about global warming is all about. It creates more poverty.

So how are we doing on those fronts? And weather we succeed or not would not matter if the worst case scenario of global warming happens the extinction of the human species.

The Klyoto Protocol was signed into existence. Most new cars worldwide are required to conform to increasingly stringent pollution standards. Power plants are held to increasingly stringent standards. Many things (like those outlined in message 65) are being voluntarily done. Plenty is being done. Why is it never enough? Why are there always calls from the political left to do more, to mandate more of others?

Yea its not enough we are still increasing our output of CO2 every year we need to start decreasing it.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by marc9000, posted 02-15-2015 9:04 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2931
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 112 of 881 (750753)
02-21-2015 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by NoNukes
02-21-2015 2:02 AM


No, I don't have a solution for global climate change

Geneticly engineer an organism that thrives on crude oil and changes it in to something we cant burn for fuel. Then infect all oil fields with the bug. Now i know many would die because of the sudden lack of energy on the market, but my guess is that number would be less then what we are going to have to face with climate change.

Once the supply is gone humanity will find a way to live without fossil fuels in a short amount of time.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by NoNukes, posted 02-21-2015 2:02 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2931
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 263 of 881 (788815)
08-05-2016 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 262 by foreveryoung
08-05-2016 1:41 AM


If it's all natural, we are not up shit Creek without a paddle. The climate has changed significantly in the history of the earth and has flourished throughout.

Its not like we had any mass extinctions to worry about one now.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by foreveryoung, posted 08-05-2016 1:41 AM foreveryoung has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by foreveryoung, posted 08-05-2016 3:20 AM frako has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2931
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 265 of 881 (788818)
08-05-2016 4:48 AM
Reply to: Message 264 by foreveryoung
08-05-2016 3:20 AM


Well actually one the biggest extinction event had a lot to do with c02, also known as the grate dying, 96% of all life went extinct do to a volcano igniting the largest deposit of coal, the spike in co2 caused the oceans to acidify killing of the fishes that then rotted and produced a whuge amount of methane spiraling global warming out of control.

But im glad you dont see us in any danger.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by foreveryoung, posted 08-05-2016 3:20 AM foreveryoung has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by foreveryoung, posted 08-05-2016 8:08 PM frako has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2931
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 270 of 881 (788859)
08-06-2016 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by foreveryoung
08-05-2016 8:08 PM


Others are doing it for me

High-resolution oxygen isotope records document the timing and magnitude of global warming across the Permian-Triassic (P-Tr) boundary. Oxygen isotope ratios measured on phosphate-bound oxygen in conodont apatite from the Meishan and Shangsi sections (South China) decrease by 2‰ in the latest Permian, translating into low-latitude surface water warming of 8 °C. The oxygen isotope shift coincides with the negative shift in carbon isotope ratios of carbonates, suggesting that the addition of isotopically light carbon to the ocean-atmosphere system by Siberian Traps volcanism and related processes resulted in higher greenhouse gas levels and global warming. The major temperature rise started immediately before the main extinction phase, with maximum and harmful temperatures documented in the latest Permian (Meishan: bed 27). The coincidence of climate warming and the main pulse of extinction suggest that global warming was one of the causes of the collapse of the marine and terrestrial ecosystems. In addition, very warm climate conditions in the Early Triassic may have played a major role in the delayed recovery in the aftermath of the Permian-Triassic crisis.

http://geology.gsapubs.org/content/40/3/195.short


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by foreveryoung, posted 08-05-2016 8:08 PM foreveryoung has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by foreveryoung, posted 08-06-2016 4:39 AM frako has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2931
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 272 of 881 (788865)
08-06-2016 4:55 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by foreveryoung
08-06-2016 4:39 AM


Permian waning of the low-latitude Alleghenian/Variscan/Hercynian orogenesis led to a long collisional orogeny gap that cut down the availability of chemically weatherable fresh silicate rock resulting in a high-CO2 atmosphere and global warming. The correspondingly reduced delivery of nutrients to the biosphere caused further increases in CO2 and warming. Melting of polar ice curtailed sinking of O2- and nutrient-rich cold brines while pole-to-equator thermal gradients weakened. Wind shear and associated wind-driven upwelling lessened, further diminishing productivity and carbon burial. As the Earth warmed, dry climates expanded to mid-latitudes, causing latitudinal expansion of the Ferrel circulation cell at the expense of the polar cell. Increased coastal evaporation generated O2- and nutrient-deficient warm saline bottom water (WSBW) and delivered it to a weakly circulating deep ocean. Warm, deep currents delivered ever more heat to high latitudes until polar sinking of cold water was replaced by upwelling WSBW. With the loss of polar sinking, the ocean was rapidly filled with WSBW that became increasingly anoxic and finally euxinic by the end of the Permian. Rapid incursion of WSBW could have produced ∼20 m of thermal expansion of the oceans, generating the well-documented marine transgression that flooded embayments in dry, hot Pangaean mid-latitudes. The flooding further increased WSBW production and anoxia, and brought that anoxic water onto the shelves. Release of CO2 from the Siberian traps and methane from clathrates below the warming ocean bottom sharply enhanced the already strong greenhouse. Increasingly frequent and powerful cyclonic storms mined upwelling high-latitude heat and released it to the atmosphere. That heat, trapped by overlying clouds of its own making, suggests complete breakdown of the dry polar cell. Resulting rapid and intense polar warming caused or contributed to extinction of the remaining latest Permian coal forests that could not migrate any farther poleward because of light limitations. Loss of water stored by the forests led to aquifer drainage, adding another ∼5 m to the transgression. Non-peat-forming vegetation survived at the newly moist poles. Climate feedback from the coal-forest extinction further intensified warmth, contributing to delayed biotic recovery that generally did not begin until mid-Triassic, but appears to have resumed first at high latitudes late in the Early Triassic. Current quantitative models fail to generate high-latitude warmth and so do not produce the chain of events we outline in this paper. Future quantitative modeling addressing factors such as polar cloudiness, increased poleward heat transport by deep water and its upwelling by cyclonic storms, and sustainable mid-latitude sinking of warm brines to promote anoxia, warming, and thermal expansion of deep water may more closely simulate conditions indicated by geological and paleontological data.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/...rticle/pii/S0031018203006679

But if you wont believe that co2 is a greenhouse gas its basically pointless debating with you.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by foreveryoung, posted 08-06-2016 4:39 AM foreveryoung has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by foreveryoung, posted 08-06-2016 5:06 AM frako has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2931
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 274 of 881 (788867)
08-06-2016 5:20 AM
Reply to: Message 273 by foreveryoung
08-06-2016 5:06 AM


Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas. That is not under dispute. Prove to me greenhouse gases cause global warming.

ok

Do we now at least agree that co2 concentration and temperatures correlate?

p.s. can you please tell me what do you think causes global warming so we can get that out of the way first.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by foreveryoung, posted 08-06-2016 5:06 AM foreveryoung has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by foreveryoung, posted 08-06-2016 5:39 AM frako has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2931
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 276 of 881 (788869)
08-06-2016 6:08 AM
Reply to: Message 275 by foreveryoung
08-06-2016 5:39 AM


They correlate but carbon dioxide level increases always follow temperature increases.

This statement does not tell the whole story. The initial changes in temperature during this period are explained by changes in the Earth’s orbit around the sun, which affects the amount of seasonal sunlight reaching the Earth’s surface. In the case of warming, the lag between temperature and CO2 is explained as follows: as ocean temperatures rise, oceans release CO2 into the atmosphere. In turn, this release amplifies the warming trend, leading to yet more CO2 being released. In other words, increasing CO2 levels become both the cause and effect of further warming. This positive feedback is necessary to trigger the shifts between glacials and interglacials as the effect of orbital changes is too weak to cause such variation. Additional positive feedbacks which play an important role in this process include other greenhouse gases, and changes in ice sheet cover and vegetation patterns.

While the orbital cycles triggered the initial warming, overall, more than 90% of the glacial-interglacial warming occured after that atmospheric CO2 increase (Figure 2)


http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-lags-temperature.htm

Total density of the atmosphere is what causes the earth to be warmer than the moon. If we were the same distance from the sun as mars, we would be warmer than mars because of our denser atmosphere.

Um so our atmosphere gets denser, and thinner how? Why? yea mars has almost no atmosfere hence no greenhouse effect. But do you seriously think the composition of the atmosfere is no factor. If we had a a radon or other non greenhouse gas atmosphere the density would not matter ass all the heat would easelly pass the non greenhouse gasses.

Edited by frako, : replace helium with radon the desenst gas known but not a greenhouse gas.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by foreveryoung, posted 08-06-2016 5:39 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2931
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 287 of 881 (788932)
08-08-2016 2:26 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by foreveryoung
08-07-2016 11:40 PM


itrogen and oxygen do not release heat as quickly as greenhouse gases do. That would significantly slow down the release of heat to space.

But they dont capture it as easely as co2 does either.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by foreveryoung, posted 08-07-2016 11:40 PM foreveryoung has not yet responded

  
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