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Author Topic:   Climate Change Denier comes in from the cold: SCIENCE!!!
Percy
Member
Posts: 20247
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 841 of 881 (886534)
05-23-2021 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 838 by marc9000
05-22-2021 8:49 PM


Re: Worldwide Fossil Fuel Use Must Cease Quickly
marc9000 writes:

Is there any point to replying to this, or are you gone for six months?

I'm gone forever in the "who is the bigger offender" thread,...

You're leaving a lot of loose ends there in terms of things you said that weren't true.

Anyway, your questions go off in directions that no one's proposing. You and your fellow Republicans hear that Democrats want to reduce reliance of fossil fuels, and you immediately jump to the conclusion that they want to directly regulate it's use, like your proposal to create essential and nonessential categories. Where I *can* see regulation playing a role is things like high-sulfur/low-heat content coal such as lignite, and so forth.

Essential versus non-essential seems perfectly logical to me,...

It may seem perfectly logical to you, but it's your view, not the Democrats. Quit claiming that Democrats want to implement your ideas.

...and it's also perfectly logical why that discussion will never see the light of day. Because it wouldn't work politically, and it's not corruptable. Climate change is about finger pointing, few people are going to hold still for government curtailing of their recreational activities.

And so it goes. Before responding adequately to your previous untruth that Democrats would try to regulate fuels by dividing them into essential and non-essential categories, you march onwards to make yet another untrue claim. There are no Democrat proposals for curtailing recreational vehicle use.

You might try looking stuff up instead of going with your gut, else you'll just continue making more false claims, like that no one's trying to create new car companies in the US.

Do you think the auto makers might be engaging in some talks right now with the EPA and politicians, looking for ideas on how to increase their sales and keep them afloat? Maybe increasing regulations on the free use of older cars and trucks? Some new auto emissions testing maybe? With some suggestions on percentages of how many will flunk?

Your suspicion meter is pegged. I have no special knowledge about lobbying by automakers, but neither do you. Your speculations are unlikely to be true.

This is what me and my fellow Republicans are concerned about.

Like most of the things you and your fellow Republicans are concerned about, they're made up.

A country that's 28 trillion in debt can't logically afford to throw away useful products,...

US GDP is about $21 trillion, so our debt is only about a third greater than our income. Many people have mortgages and total debt that are far greater than that, like 2, 3 or even 4 times income. Why do you think the US debt is at a difficult point?

I remember the circus of emissions testing in my area 17 years ago, it wasn't fun.

You remember lots of things that never happened. What are you imagining happened with emissions testing 17 years ago?

But why love oil, Marc? What is it about oil that turned you into its big defender? Why do you seem to care so passionately where your power comes from, preferring that it come from the worst possible source for the environment. If tomorrow all your power suddenly started coming from wind and solar instead of gas and oil (which is possible, since power is fungible), why would you care?

I care about costs and efficiency.

Here's some Tesla info. The Tesla Model 3 base model is $37,000, and the Model 3 Extended Range Dual Motor is $50,000. It can go around 300 miles on a single change, and it takes around a half hour to charge at a Tesla Supercharging station. The Tesla home charger takes about five hours for a full charge. It costs about half as much per mile to drive as a gas-powered car. It requires very little maintenance, allowing Tesla to use a different model where most of their income comes from vehicle sales, while only part of the income from gas-powered vehicles comes from sales, the rest coming from service. A Tesla has no radiator, no radiator fluid, no thermostat, no water pump, no spark plugs, no ignition system, no fuel injectors, no fuel pump, no fuel filter, no crankcase oil, no oil filter, no oil pump, no transmission, no exhaust pipe, no muffler, no crankshaft, no pistons, no valves, no pushrods. The drivetrain has 17 moving parts, 34 for the dual motor, and there's a battery along the bottom of the car that runs from front to rear. Tesla has no recommended maintenance period but suggests coming in for a checkover once every couple years. It has excellent power (0-60 in 4.2 seconds for the Extended Range) and handling (the position of the batteries gives it a very low center of gravity).

But I'm not concerned about electric power, that will evolve however it will, the public won't be involved or informed, and I actually think it will work out for the best.

There are federal subsidies for electric cars, but only so much for each manufacturer. The Tesla subsidy used to be $7500 but the funds ran out and it is now $0.

I worry about government involvement in private property.

You mean like the way the federal government become involved in automotive safety and cut the automobile fatality rate to a miniscule level? Deaths per billion vehicle miles traveled used to be 250 a century ago and now its about 10. Thank God there's no amendment sayng, "Transportation being essential to the economy of a free State, the right of the people to own and drive transport shall not be infringed."

Older vehicles are seldom used near as much as newer ones, obviously restricting them will have little or no impact on the climate.

Marc, you are making things up again. No one has proposed restricting older vehicles. Older vehicles are always grandfathered in by whatever the standards were at the time. To get older vehicles off the road the government has in the past provided incentives for people to purchase new cars.

But it's a feel good measure, one that will satisfy a big enough segment of the population so that no political damage is done. But the kind of damage that government meddling can do often can't be undone.

What's a feel good measure? Restricting older vehicles? That's just something you made up.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 838 by marc9000, posted 05-22-2021 8:49 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 844 by NosyNed, posted 05-23-2021 12:35 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 845 by marc9000, posted 05-23-2021 2:21 PM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20247
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 842 of 881 (886535)
05-23-2021 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 840 by NosyNed
05-22-2021 10:57 PM


Re: New Car Companies
NosyNed writes:

...Fisker (probably not)...

They ceased operations in 2014.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 840 by NosyNed, posted 05-22-2021 10:57 PM NosyNed has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 843 by NosyNed, posted 05-23-2021 12:29 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
NosyNed
Member (Idle past 11 days)
Posts: 8963
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 843 of 881 (886539)
05-23-2021 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 842 by Percy
05-23-2021 11:21 AM


Zombies
They are back (for now). At least that is what recall.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 842 by Percy, posted 05-23-2021 11:21 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
NosyNed
Member (Idle past 11 days)
Posts: 8963
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 844 of 881 (886540)
05-23-2021 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 841 by Percy
05-23-2021 11:16 AM


Model Y maintenace !!
That's not true!! I've had my Y for almost a year and had to put air in the tires twice until they seated in. It cost me $3!!!! (of course, that's Canadian dollars so not so much)

Of course, regular yearly service on the Audi was 500 to 1,000 and the gas (being premium and being in the most expensive area for gas in North America) was 20 to 25 cents / km. My electricity cost is about 2 cents per km .


This message is a reply to:
 Message 841 by Percy, posted 05-23-2021 11:16 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1214
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 845 of 881 (886549)
05-23-2021 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 841 by Percy
05-23-2021 11:16 AM


Re: Worldwide Fossil Fuel Use Must Cease Quickly
Quit claiming that Democrats want to implement your ideas.

You're pretty clever at getting rid of people without banning them. Didn't work with Faith, but it works for me.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 841 by Percy, posted 05-23-2021 11:16 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 846 by nwr, posted 05-23-2021 3:16 PM marc9000 has not yet responded
 Message 847 by Percy, posted 05-24-2021 1:27 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5791
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.6


(2)
Message 846 of 881 (886551)
05-23-2021 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 845 by marc9000
05-23-2021 2:21 PM


Re: Worldwide Fossil Fuel Use Must Cease Quickly
Didn't work with Faith, but it works for me.

It doesn't seem that way. You are still here

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 845 by marc9000, posted 05-23-2021 2:21 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20247
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 847 of 881 (886565)
05-24-2021 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 845 by marc9000
05-23-2021 2:21 PM


Re: Worldwide Fossil Fuel Use Must Cease Quickly
If you have evidence that anything you said was true, this is the time and place to present them.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 845 by marc9000, posted 05-23-2021 2:21 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5999
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 848 of 881 (887530)
08-08-2021 4:13 PM


New IPCC Climate Report
Due out this week the IPCC will issue its second world report.

This article Here's What You Need to Know About The UN's Upcoming 'State of The Climate' Report is about how the report was put together and the rigourous open scientific review system used.

There are technical science sections separate from the political policy sections.

This report will be the world's consensus view of our climate issues both science and policy wise.

quote:
"It's warming. It's us. We're sure. It's bad. But we can fix it." That's how sustainability scientist and Lund University Professor Kimberly Nicholas puts it.

Don't expect an optimistic picture to emerge from the upcoming report. Climate change is a threat-multiplier that compounds other global, national and regional environmental and social issues.



Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5999
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 849 of 881 (887537)
08-09-2021 11:00 AM


IPCC - Summary for Policymakers
IPCC, 2021: Summary for Policymakers. In: Climate Change 2021: The Physical Science Basis.
Contribution of Working Group I to the Sixth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change

quote:
A.1 It is unequivocal that human influence has warmed the atmosphere, ocean and land.
Widespread and rapid changes in the atmosphere, ocean, cryosphere and biosphere
have occurred.

A.2 The scale of recent changes across the climate system as a whole and the present state of
many aspects of the climate system are unprecedented over many centuries to many
thousands of years.

A.3 Human-induced climate change is already affecting many weather and climate extremes
in every region across the globe. Evidence of observed changes in extremes such as
heatwaves, heavy precipitation, droughts, and tropical cyclones, and, in particular, their
attribution to human influence, has strengthened since AR5 (previous IPCC report).

A.4 Improved knowledge of climate processes, paleoclimate evidence and the response of the
climate system to increasing radiative forcing gives a best estimate of equilibrium
climate sensitivity of 3°C with a narrower range compared to AR5.

B.1 Global surface temperature will continue to increase until at least the mid-century
under all emissions scenarios considered. Global warming of 1.5°C and 2°C will be
exceeded during the 21st century unless deep reductions in CO2 and other greenhouse
gas emissions occur in the coming decades.

B.2 Many changes in the climate system become larger in direct relation to increasing global
warming. They include increases in the frequency and intensity of hot extremes, marine
heatwaves, and heavy precipitation, agricultural and ecological droughts in some
regions, and proportion of intense tropical cyclones, as well as reductions in Arctic sea
ice, snow cover and permafrost.

B.3 Continued global warming is projected to further intensify the global water cycle,
including its variability, global monsoon precipitation and the severity of wet and dry
events.

B.4 Under scenarios with increasing CO2 emissions, the ocean and land carbon sinks are
projected to be less effective at slowing the accumulation of CO2 in the atmosphere.

B.5 Many changes due to past and future greenhouse gas emissions are irreversible for
centuries to millennia, especially changes in the ocean, ice sheets and global sea level.


No more BS from Big Carbon and their political minions.

The warming is real (no reasonable doubts remain).

The warming is happening faster than projected.

The warming is known anthropomorphic (no reasonable doubts remain).

It is bad. Shifts in weather are now, and will continue to disrupt agriculture and social systems placing societies under extreme stress.

We can still mollify some projected disruptions or their severity to a significant degree if we drastically reduce greenhouse emissions before 2050.

It’s getting worse but we still have a chance to affect the most drastic IF we change our poisonous ways today.

In summary, since we have already shown ourselves to be a population of stupid apes this report means we’re more screwed than we thought we were.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

Replies to this message:
 Message 850 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-09-2021 12:22 PM AZPaul3 has responded
 Message 854 by nwr, posted 08-09-2021 1:06 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2573
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 850 of 881 (887538)
08-09-2021 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 849 by AZPaul3
08-09-2021 11:00 AM


Re: IPCC - Summary for Policymakers
We can still mollify some projected disruptions or their severity to a significant degree if we drastically reduce greenhouse emissions before 2050.

29 years, that's plenty of time.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 849 by AZPaul3, posted 08-09-2021 11:00 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 852 by AZPaul3, posted 08-09-2021 12:49 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5999
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 851 of 881 (887539)
08-09-2021 12:36 PM


FAQ - IPCC
The committee put up a FAQ section in their report.

IPCC Frequently Asked Questions

A sampling of the types of questions. Each one is answered in a layman's vernacular with lots of backup data when needed.

FAQ 1.1: Do we understand climate change better now compared to when the IPCC started?

FAQ 4.1: How Will the Climate Change over the Next Twenty Years?

FAQ 7.2: Clouds – What is the role in a warming climate?

FAQ 10.2: Why are cities hotspots of global warming?

FAQ 12.1: What is a climatic impact-driver (CID)?

90+ pages of such questions with detailed comprehensive answers.

Very interesting questions and data. A major layman's answer resource.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5999
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 852 of 881 (887540)
08-09-2021 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 850 by Tanypteryx
08-09-2021 12:22 PM


Re: IPCC - Summary for Policymakers
29 years, that's plenty of time.

For this species? In this world with lots of oil, money, politics and guns?

I'm not going to be around to collect but I'll bet ya $10 we don't make it.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 850 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-09-2021 12:22 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 853 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-09-2021 1:06 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2573
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


(2)
Message 853 of 881 (887541)
08-09-2021 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 852 by AZPaul3
08-09-2021 12:49 PM


Re: IPCC - Summary for Policymakers
I'm not going to be around to collect but I'll bet ya $10 we don't make it.

You win! If the pandemic has shown us anything, it's that we will not do anything to save ourselves, especially if it means saving our "enemies" also.

Damn it, I could use $10, too!


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 852 by AZPaul3, posted 08-09-2021 12:49 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5791
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.6


(4)
Message 854 of 881 (887542)
08-09-2021 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 849 by AZPaul3
08-09-2021 11:00 AM


Re: IPCC - Summary for Policymakers
No more BS from Big Carbon and their political minions.

You are an optimist.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 849 by AZPaul3, posted 08-09-2021 11:00 AM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2331
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006
Member Rating: 6.7


(3)
Message 855 of 881 (887546)
08-09-2021 2:00 PM


In the End, Death s the Cure
You know what is going to happen after the IPCC report - NOTHING.

The Climate Crisis will be cured by one thing - the deaths of billions. After the amount of humans is reduced below a threshold, they will not be able to pollute as much, thereby saving the planet and hopefully some remnant of the natural world.


The problem with knowing everything is learning nothing.

If you don't know what you're doing, find someone who does, and do what they do.

Republican = death


Replies to this message:
 Message 856 by AZPaul3, posted 08-09-2021 3:19 PM anglagard has not yet responded

  
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