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Author Topic:   New cosmology model without a Big Bang
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 25 (749990)
02-10-2015 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Blue Jay
02-10-2015 7:01 PM


. Indeed, there are some physicists who have proposed a model of cosmology that eliminates the "singularities" from Big Bang Theory and doesn't require dark matter, and it postulates an infinite universe with no beginning.

According to the article, they don't actually claim to have gotten rid of dark matter yet, although they claim not to need dark energy.

quote:
In cosmological terms, the scientists explain that the quantum corrections can be thought of as a cosmological constant term (without the need for dark energy) and a radiation term.

quote:
Motivated by the model's potential to resolve the Big Bang singularity and account for dark matter and dark energy, the physicists plan to analyze their model more rigorously in the future

In fact the article is a bit short of telling us exactly what the successes are other than not requiring a singularity. I'm curious how the model works out as a theory of gravity on a local basis.

Bunch of crank science to be found in the comments section though.


Je Suis Charlie

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Blue Jay, posted 02-10-2015 7:01 PM Blue Jay has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 25 (759140)
06-09-2015 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by mikechell
06-09-2015 9:38 AM


Re: no other place to postulate ...
What if we ARE on the surface of a balloon that is expanding outwards from a central point? just as an example:
Our part of the balloon skin could be 50 billion light years thick. At the center of the balloon is an empty space of unimaginable "empty" where dark energy has built to extreme levels.

No, this is not possible. The 2-D balloon image is supposed to represent all of the dimensions of space. There is no center or depth to the skin. Those things are part of dimensions that do not exist.

To imagine 3-D space having a similar geometry requires us to envision a 4-D picture while we ignore one of the spatial dimensions. Turns out that no one is capable of doing that. (A few people are capable of saying that they can.) But similarly the balloon model requires ignoring the depth division. There is no interior.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by mikechell, posted 06-09-2015 9:38 AM mikechell has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by mikechell, posted 06-09-2015 10:28 AM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 25 (759153)
06-09-2015 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by mikechell
06-09-2015 10:28 AM


Re: no other place to postulate ...
You cannot just say, "this is not possible." Well, you can, but it's an empty statement.

In this case I believe I can say "impossible" because the 2D balloon imagery is just a metaphor, and the metaphor does not include a third dimension.

If you want to postulate that the universe is really like a balloon, go ahead and do so. But that was definitely not the intent of the balloon metaphor and so your post is not a proper critique of that 'balloon model'. Instead you are addressing some other stuff you made up in an attempt to show us a deficiency in the everything is the center idea.

And to what end? We know that the universe is not two dimensional and thus that it is entirely not like a thick balloon with an energy interior as you describe, right? Is it okay to say impossible now?

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by mikechell, posted 06-09-2015 10:28 AM mikechell has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by mikechell, posted 06-09-2015 12:18 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 25 (759172)
06-09-2015 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by mikechell
06-09-2015 12:18 PM


Re: no other place to postulate ...
Actually, I am not questioning the metaphor of the balloon. I am questioning the idea that an explosion, even one as massivee and incomprehensible as the Big Bang, has to expand from a central point.

Seems to me that you are questioning the idea that the Big Bang did NOT expand from a central point. Not expanding from a central point is the main stream idea. You seem to want a central point inside the balloon.

I suspect that one source of confusion is that your question assumes a geometry of space at the time of the explosion, which may not have existed given that space and time were created in the Big Bang.

But everyone always bases everything on the presumption of the Balloon Metaphor.

The metaphor is used to explain what our understanding and is not the basis of anything. The universe as viewed from our vantage appears as if we are the center of everything. But it also seems that the same thing is true from other view points. The balloon is used to show how such a thing might be. Other people like to use a raisin cake rising in an oven.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by mikechell, posted 06-09-2015 12:18 PM mikechell has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 25 (759226)
06-09-2015 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by mikechell
06-09-2015 4:58 PM


Re: no other place to postulate ...
One thing I've learned from my students ... sometimes, the most perceptive questions come from the least experienced person.

Then fear not! I don't believe any field of science attracts more amateurs and crackpots that do cosmology and general relativity. There is no lack of 'independent thinkers' out there. Quite a few of them know a considerable amount of math.

Unfortunately though, the 'pure idea men' who don't know math have no way to put their ideas out there even for ridicule, let alone criticism by scientists.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by mikechell, posted 06-09-2015 4:58 PM mikechell has not yet responded

  
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