Chariots of God (Scripture & Photo Examined)

I don't know if someone is claiming to have photographed the Spirit of God or something like that. That would of course appear as nonsense to me.Because Jesus Christ is the center of the whole Bible, understanding something of what God as accomplished in Jesus Christ is an important key in grasping what this vision of Ezekiel means.It is a symbolic picture of utter cooperation and coordination between God and God's people. The entire apparatus of the vision speaks of the divine / human coordination, harmony, and cooperation by which God's WILL moves as a WHEEL through the history of creation.God does not want to unilaterally do many things apart from having man on earth echo His heart and cooperate with Him in full harmony. This complex vision reveals the utter harmonious coordination God seeks and will eventually obtain in His people. He sought it in Israel. He seeks it with the New Testament church. He eventually obtains it with a remnant of overcoming ones and fully secures it in eternity with the New Jerusalem.The vision is not too far removed from what Jesus Christ is - the full mingling, coordination, blending, cooperation, and incorporation of God and man in one Person.
This vision is a revelation of a Divine / Human union in movement, operation, and accompishing of God's will on earth. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

The Old Testament has everything to do with Jesus Christ.
In spite of jar's confident assertion, we know because of what Jesus Christ Himself has taught.Moses and ALL ... the prophets - spoke of Christ - "And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, He explained to them clearly in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. "(Luke 24:27) The Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms - "And He said to them, These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all the things written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and Psalms concerning Me must be fulfilled. "(Luke 24:44) Jesus opened their minds to understand the (Old Testament) Scriptures spoke of Himself - "Then He opened their mind to understand the Scriptures. And He said to them, Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise up from the dead on the third day, And that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His namee to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem." (Luke 24:46,47) Christians are those who have had their minds opened to see Christ in all the Bible.
The readers can make up thier decision to believe jar or to believe Jesus Christ.I choose the believe Jesus on this over jar.
My discussion of Ezekiel's vision will assume this centrality of Christ in the whole Bible.I haven't changed in this regard.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I trust Jesus in this over your explanations.
He opened our minds to understand.Sorry to see that your mind has not been opened to realize Christ is central to the entire Bible.

As usual support from me.
Luke chapter 24.Readers can decide if they choose to trust jar's opinion of Jesus' teaching.

Ezekiel's vision can be approached if we go back to Genesis 1 through 3.The climax of these three chapters is God placing the created man before the tree of life. The whole Bible is needed to ascertain that the tree of life God Himself entering into man. The tree of life is a symbol of God presented to in the form of food that man may take God into himself.God created man in order to get INTO man. And God depicted in the form of food - the tree of life, is a symbol of this profound truth. What we eat gets into our body to become part of us. And God's eternal purpose is to dispense Himself into man just like man eating food.Already you can see that the utter oneness of the Divine and the Human was on the Creator's heart from the beginning of man's creation. This will become very important as we get into the details of the symbolism of Ezekiel's vision.The point of this post is that the vision of Ezekiel is related to the original purpose of God in, in God wanting to be so intimately united with humanity that the two - God and man are incorporated organically into a profound mingling. When man lives, he lives out God. When God lives, He lives through man.The eternal plan of God is seen again in Ezekiel's strange vision. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

When man disobeyed God in the fall of man, the tree of life was concealed and encompassed by the cherubim. This creature, a cherubim guarded the way to the tree of life with a flaming sword. Here we see God barring the way to the tree life from the fallen Adam and Eve. The barrier against man partaking of God as divine life is threefold.The cherubim represent the glory of God. Man has fallen short of the glory of God and is excluded from receiving God into him.The flame of the sword represents the holiness of God. Man has fallen short of the holiness of God and is therefore excluded.The sword represents the righteousness of God. Man has fallen short of the righteousness of God and is therefore excluded from taking in God.Adam is now united with God's enemy, poisoned, corrupted, and being filled up with death. Adam and Eve have fallen from an innocent state into a state at enmity with thier Creator. God has a threefold demand upon Adam and Eve which they cannot fulfill. They come short of the glory, the holiness, and the righteousness of God.God's plan to enter into man as "food" that God and man may live an mingled life in union is bared. But in the rest of the Bible it is through the redemption of Christ, man gains again access to the tree of life. In the rest of the revelation of Scripture the redeeming work of Christ opens the way for man to again, to take the tree of life as his food.You will notice that I will not spend inordinate time to prove to some skeptics that Jesus Christ is central to the whole Old Testament and New Testament. It is going to be submitted as a given for the most part. Those who cannot take it just won't be able to take it.In the Bible's final book we see the way to the tree of life opened to all those who are qualified to enter into the eternal city New Jerusalem. They have washed their robes in the blood of the Redeemer the Son of God. That means that they have partaken of the redemptive salvation of Jesus Christ. His shed blood upon Calvary's cross has redeemed them, justified them, and atoned for their sins for eternity. They are justified to come back to God's eternal purpose to dispense His life and nature into them as the tree of life.The cherubim, the sword, the flame of Genesis 3 will all become important to entering into the significance of Ezekiel's vision.

God presenting Himself as food is picked up many times in the Bible. I draw special attention to Jesus the Son of God doing this.The Lord Jesus told us in John 6 that He came as the bread of life, and that we should take Him as our food. We can take Jesus Christ into us as our "food." This taking in of Christ is the beginning of God getting into man with His own life and His nature for an "organic" union of the Divine with our humanity.By taking Christ in as good eventually the takers will bear His image. By having His life, His nature, and His image, we all will be built up together. We will move together with God and God will live through us. This union will flower out into an utterly harmonious coordination of God and man rolling forth the will of God out of eternity through the universe.In this union there is full sight and insight. As the wheels are full of eyes we will see that in this mingling of God and man there is extensive sight. We can see why there is a universe and why man is in it. And we can see the eternal purpose of God.For God created all things FOR His will - God created all things FOR His will. And His will is to be dispensed into man for the mingling of God and man. He remains the Source and the Head of this union. But He gains a Body which is a mingling of divinity and humanity.This oneness was on God's heart all through the Old Testament. This is why the vision of this divine coordination is seen in the Old Testament book of the prophet Ezekiel. It we on His heart with Israel and He expressed His desire of God / Human incorporation to the prophet.Then briefly, In John 17:21, the Lord Jesus prayed explicitly for this union - What did Jesus Christ mean in this prayer to His Father? He simply meant that all the redeemed sinners must be built up together. God builds Himself into them and they are built up in oneness with one another for an expression of God dwelling in man. This prayer is a mighty petition which God cannot fail to answer. The answer in full is in Revelation 21 and 22 when we see the New Jerusalem as the mingling of God and man.Both in John's Gospel and John's Revelation, we can see that all the redeemed ones are built up together into one city. And the glory of God is manifested from within this corporate entity. The divine administration also has its capital in this city within the new universe.In that city, all the saved are all one, not just in word or in doctrine, but in building. All the saved human beings must be built up with one another in life. Then God will have a city, the New Jerusalem.This has been on God's heart from eternity past. And even in Ezekiel He discloses in mysterious terms to Israel, that He is ever moving towards this eternal goal.

I don't care anything for the photo. I will not be giving any attention to the photo but to the Scripture.I thought the first illustration was pretty good to visualize some of the details of Ezekiel's visions.The issues about seeing the Holy Spirit in a photograph I regarded foolish, sensational and I won't be paying attention to it.

I have gotten a great deal of help from Christian teachers with deeper experience. And if you are interested in where I derive some of the matters I share here, go to The Life Study of Ezekiel by Witness Lee -Titles A-Z | LSM Online PublicationsEdited by jaywill, : No reason given.

You are quite welcomed.The Lee verses Nee matter I do not find at all valid.
I get stirred up when I hear Christians attempt to drive some kind of wedge between these two servants of God.But I am glad that you are at least somewhat opened to look into Witness Lee's marvelous ministry.Now I know that in one or two posts or even perhaps in one lengthy discussion, I am not likely to change some misgivings about brother Witness Lee. I would only testify that the defamatory hype which has been concocted to drive a wedge between the ministry of Watchman Nee and that of Witness Lee is not valid.Lee was the most trusted of Nee's co-workers. And the reason that Watchman Nee refused Witness Lee's request to remain in Mainland China to be martyred along with Nee and the others led to stay under the Communist was because Watchman insisted that he go to Taiwan.In essence he said (not verbatim) "There is the possibility that the enemy will wipe out completely what God has accomplished through us here in China. If you go and we are stopped by the Communists, at least we will still have something remaining."This is a paraphrase of the conversation which took place. And I would advize you to pray much to see if negative propaganda has had any enfluence on your suspicions that God did not continue to move through Witness Lee's ministry after Watchman Nee's imprisonment.Have you read the articles in the Apologetics Magazine of (CRI) Christian Research Institute entitled "We Were Wrong" ?http://www.equipresources.org/site/apps/ka/ec/product.aspEdited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

No. I do not think my contributions on the vision of Ezekiel are highjacking the thread. If someone thinks I am completely off topic then I would be happy to start another thread on Ezekiel's vision.Maybe some of you skeptics are having too much fun already disbunking this so-called "photograph" of the Holy Spirit. I thought in Bible Study maybe some would be interested in a study of the Bible somewhat more on the passages. I have not read every post on this discussion. So I am not sure what you are talking about on "facts are facts."Interpretation is interpretation. What we can ask is is an interpretation of a difficult portion of the Bible valid or reasonable. In a biblical context I would stand by what small amount of interpretation I have done so far.Jar challenged something. I gave my reasons for dismissing his challenge. What I find somewhat lazy so far from you is how what I have written on Ezekiel's vision is not reasonable interpretation. Just parroting "God did it" seems to me irrelevant. It seems you are using some kind of canned responses knee jerk style.God did what ?
God gave Ezekiel a VISION ??
Yea, I believe God DID THAT.
God gave the prophet Ezekiel a vision.
So what ?My contribution is about how to glean some understanding of this mysterious vision.
It is about a Divine and Human coordination and cooperation. This strange apparatus of one like a man on the throne about these four creatures and strange awesome wheels full of eyes, speaks of God and His creature (especially man) moving together in utter harmonious coordination.This is how God longed that He and His nation Israel would have been coordinated together.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

The OP says Is it valid or invalid to consult then Scripture in this thread to "understand Ezekiel's vision" ?ANYONE ? Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

The OP says that the starter of the thread will consult scriptures to assist in the ascertaining of the meaning of Ezekiel's vision.I joined in the discussion to do just that myself.
So your discussion is not being hijacked.I have no more comment on the photograph.
If paying less attention to that photograph and more attention to the passage in the book of Ezekiel is "hijacking" the thread, I don't think its the discussion that is being hijacked.Someone's roasting of a crackpot idea that the Holy Spirit can be photographed may be being "hijacked" to someone's dismay. Where's the rule that I cannot consult scripture to discuss the vision as the OP said ?Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

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Point taken that "Facts are facts" is just a little ID identification.