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Author Topic:   Jihadists must die, --- but our real enemies are the Quran and Bible.
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12417
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 27 of 375 (751282)
03-02-2015 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
02-26-2015 7:30 PM


We Have Met The Enemy And He Is Us.
Greatest I Am writes:

...our real enemies are the Quran and Bible.

No. Our real enemy is lack of education, lack of critical thinking skills, and a stubborn bias towards established dogma. As a Christian, I can tell you that my belief is examined and questioned by me often...but I don't believe that a believer by default is delusional or necessarily wrong.

The passages that create our problems must be re-interpreted and re-rephrased for modern times.
I question certain passages in the Bible and I will admit to a propensity to confirmation bias, but I have had experiences that lead me to no other rational conclusion---except perhaps mental illness!

G.I.A. writes:

The Quran and the Bible are both creating misogynous and homophobic religions that deny many of us equality. World/Male domination of a few over the many of us is the goal of both of the two largest of the mainstream religions. Those who fly the cross and those who fly the star and crescent. Both groups are idol worshipers and not the God seekers that Jesus wanted for mankind. Shame on both the cross and those who fly the star and crescent.

Personally, I believe that God exists and I will admit to actively sharing this belief with others. I will agree with you, however, inasmuch to say that much of Christian Culture is sick and dysfunctional to an extent. Not because of our beliefs so much as our actions and perceptions. I will not blame black and white thinking, because absolutes are a fact of reality---not all is gray. I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that He pre-existed time itself and was in the beginning with the Father. Jesus is Gods human character, were God to transform into a human. No prophet nor individual will ever get any closer or better in this representation than has Jesus. That being said, I acknowledge what jar emphasizes in that Jesus was made man. As far as goals go, I believe that there is a dynamic--a type of battle in the Spirit---that is in essence a part of the human experience.

Many say that Jesus was the "second Adam" but I see Jesus as plan A rather than plan B. God never created actualized evil, in my belief. God created the possibility of evil--potentialized evil in the form of rebellion (independence?) from His Spirit. Lucifer actualized the process by choosing to rebel---much like many of today's educated skeptics do.


Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 02-26-2015 7:30 PM Greatest I am has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Tangle, posted 03-02-2015 8:56 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12417
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 29 of 375 (751292)
03-02-2015 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Tangle
03-02-2015 8:56 AM


Re: We Have Met The Enemy And He Is Us.
Why is it you always take the contrarian position by default?

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Tangle, posted 03-02-2015 8:56 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Tangle, posted 03-02-2015 9:57 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12417
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 146 of 375 (759236)
06-10-2015 3:17 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Greatest I am
06-09-2015 7:39 PM


Re: "But the second stone, up for grabs."
How about this one that confuses me.

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

It means that Jesus is not representing himself---as a human. Jesus is representing God.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Greatest I am, posted 06-09-2015 7:39 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Greatest I am, posted 06-10-2015 1:03 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12417
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 232 of 375 (759820)
06-15-2015 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by jar
06-15-2015 10:39 AM


Character and Reality
In essence and summation, we are always talking about two similar though different concepts.

1) The god character, as written and verbally recorded through man. This is the character that one might correct and remind of the rules. It is a sort of altar ego within humanity...a greater conscience as it were.

2) GOD, Creator of all seen and unseen...Who is mighty, fearsome, wonderful, powerful. Some believe that Jesus is the chosen means for this GOD to communicate with humanity...others believe that jesus himself is only a character and only human.

Our real enemies are ourselves. GOD may or may not commune with us and through us...I believe that he does.


Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by jar, posted 06-15-2015 10:39 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by jar, posted 06-15-2015 12:57 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12417
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 234 of 375 (759833)
06-15-2015 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by jar
06-15-2015 12:57 PM


Re: Character and Reality
To me, it means that I have been given the gift and promise of communion with GOD. Not that I am GOD nor a part of GOD, but that I am in communion---communication---with Him and with His wisdom.

Not that He speaks through me. That He speaks to me.In my conscience. In my reasoning. In my logic. In my honesty and awareness of my dishonesty, GOD is the sword that divides truth from error, right from wrong, love from hate.

So how do I know its God, one may ask.

I can only answer this question for myself....I cannot answer it for you or anyone else.

As you may have said before a time or two...

I believe, but I also am aware that I might be wrong.

I can only be honest to myself regarding my beliefs and my actions.

each day is a new lesson.


Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by jar, posted 06-15-2015 12:57 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by jar, posted 06-15-2015 2:22 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply
 Message 236 by mikechell, posted 06-15-2015 4:01 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
 Message 241 by Greatest I am, posted 06-15-2015 7:34 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12417
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 288 of 375 (760060)
06-17-2015 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 287 by mikechell
06-16-2015 11:10 PM


We Have Met The Enemy & He Is Us
We discuss spirituality and religion a lot here at this forum, mike. I have learned a lot about myself through debates here. Rarely if ever do I find many people who agree with what I say, but I have stayed and traded verbal jabs and exchanged human wisdom (or the lack thereof,on my part) with the best of them.

It used to annoy me when people couldn't see my well thought out arguments. I was indeed a legend in my own mind. Slowly, however, i learned to take a (devils advocate) approach and pretend that I was supporting their arguments against myself. It worked, and my arguments are better than they used to be---although very few still agree with me.

Politics is like that---congressional squabbling annoys me because we the people pay these people to bicker...hoping that our candidate will have more hot air than the opponents.

To quote Mark Twain---

quote:
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." Mark Twain

Our real enemies are the cobwebs within our own thinking.

Yes, I believe God exists and would exist even if no human on earth believed in Him. Granted I will admit that I am biased.

The jury is still out on whether the human race will survive forever (or a reasonable slice of time) or whether we will be a brief explosion in the grand universal scheme.

Your quote says "evidence over faith ... observation over theory.

If humans become extinct, Who will observe our demise?

Moreso, will there be any evidence for said observer?

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


God created war so that Americans would learn geography. Mark Twain
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by mikechell, posted 06-16-2015 11:10 PM mikechell has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by mikechell, posted 06-17-2015 9:30 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12417
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 311 of 375 (760327)
06-20-2015 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 301 by ringo
06-18-2015 11:59 AM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
ringo writes:

Telling Muslims to just change the way they interpret the Qur'an is garbage.

Perhaps in general, yes. Specifically free speech is never garbage in the context of Forum Guidelines and this online forum.

People have a right to be ignorant or ill informed. I know my rights, at least.

Besides...the answer is not yet complete. Keep the questions and observations coming, however. Challenge us.


God created war so that Americans would learn geography. Mark Twain
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by ringo, posted 06-18-2015 11:59 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12417
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 355 of 375 (761510)
07-02-2015 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 354 by Tangle
07-02-2015 3:14 AM


I Yam what I Yam
So what do you think of G.I.A. saying that he considers his God to be himself? (I'd like to hear Tangles point of view, for the peanut gallery among you)

God created war so that Americans would learn geography. Mark Twain
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 354 by Tangle, posted 07-02-2015 3:14 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 357 by Tangle, posted 07-02-2015 8:55 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12417
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 356 of 375 (761511)
07-02-2015 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 352 by Greatest I am
07-01-2015 6:53 PM


GIA writes:

I ignore your imaginary friend for sure but not the Jesus I follow.

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find.

A couple of questions.

  • How can you "follow" yourself?

  • How do you interpret Genesis 3:5 in context?

    God created war so that Americans would learn geography. Mark Twain
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 352 by Greatest I am, posted 07-01-2015 6:53 PM Greatest I am has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 359 by Greatest I am, posted 07-02-2015 1:25 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  • Thugpreacha
    Member
    Posts: 12417
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 370 of 375 (761780)
    07-05-2015 4:59 PM


    Off Topic Palooza
    This topic has waundered in the desert for forty days and forty nights.

    Greatest I AM--as the topic originator would you like to steer us back on topic or summarize and close.


    God created war so that Americans would learn geography. Mark Twain
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain

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