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Author Topic:   Jihadists must die, --- but our real enemies are the Qur’an and Bible.
jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 16 of 375 (751211)
03-01-2015 9:20 AM


Yawn
Yet another pointless hit-n-run.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Greatest I am, posted 03-01-2015 2:18 PM jar has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 53 of 375 (758957)
06-06-2015 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Greatest I am
06-06-2015 10:21 AM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
When Christianity elects a woman as Presiding Bishop it is anti-woman.
When a gay person is elected a Bishop is that also anti-gay?
When Christianity sanctions same sex marriages is that anti-homsexual too?
Do your hit and run rants make you feel better?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Greatest I am, posted 06-06-2015 10:21 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Greatest I am, posted 06-06-2015 1:19 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 56 of 375 (758962)
06-06-2015 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Greatest I am
06-06-2015 1:19 PM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
Honesty or an answer might make me feel better.
When Christianity elects a woman as Presiding Bishop it is anti-woman?
When a gay person is elected a Bishop is that also anti-gay?
When Christianity sanctions same sex marriages is that anti-homsexual too?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Greatest I am, posted 06-06-2015 1:19 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Greatest I am, posted 06-06-2015 3:32 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 61 of 375 (758968)
06-06-2015 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Greatest I am
06-06-2015 3:32 PM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
GIA writes:
You think we should forget 3,000 of female and gay oppression just because Christians find a small bit of common sense for gays as they continue to discriminate against women.
No, nor have I said that such things should be forgotten. Nor is my Christian Church discriminating against women. What I think is that perhaps you should try a small amount of eduction.
GIA writes:
You forget how hard gays had to fight for equality that women still do not have thanks to Christians and Muslims.
Again, try learning. My Christian church offers equality to both gays and women. Do you know who The Most Rev. Dr. Katharine Jefferts Schori happens to be or what her position is?
Perhaps you simply need to recognize your abject ignorance and instead ask to be educated.
Remember, if just one Christian Church does not discriminate against women your whole premise has been shown to be false.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Greatest I am, posted 06-06-2015 3:32 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Greatest I am, posted 06-06-2015 5:19 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 66 of 375 (758981)
06-06-2015 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Greatest I am
06-06-2015 5:19 PM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
I will try to educate.
The Bible like so may collections is filled with contradictions, fantasy, as well as reflections of the reality, politics and conceptions of the period when they were written. But Bibles, or Qur'an, cannot discriminate. They are books and books can only be enemies to the totally ignorant. No book has ever hit someone, discriminated against someone. Books are objects.
What is important is what people do.
People can oppress, discriminate or enable and elevate. Christians, like any other group can do both.
In reality Christianity is what Christians do. We can elect a woman Presiding Bishop and we did. We can bless and recognize same sex marriages and we do.
But it is the State, not Christianity, that governs and creates the laws, rules and regulations that discriminate or integrate. No one in the US is dependent on any religion to get married or a job or to determine rights. Christianity cannot create any marriage not sanctioned by the State.
That is reality.
So, in the US, it does not appear that Christianity discriminates against either women or gays.
Some Christians may, some Chapters of Club Christian may, but that is also true of Lions or Elks or motorcycle clubs or most any association.
Only a fool finds the Bible or Qur'an an enemy and such folk should be pitied but tolerated.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Greatest I am, posted 06-06-2015 5:19 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Greatest I am, posted 06-07-2015 9:41 AM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 71 of 375 (758998)
06-07-2015 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Greatest I am
06-07-2015 9:41 AM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
GIA writes:
You are either a fool or a blind mind.
Roman Catholicism is not Christianity nor does their stance on same-sex marriages or women in the priesthood or birth control or any other subject discriminate against anyone in the US that does not wish to be a member of that Chapter of Club Christian.
Private organizations have the right to create their own bylaws and thank God, in the US there is also a right of free association.
GIA writes:
Should we make sure that every American READS Mein Kampf?
We should certainly encourage it although it is without a doubt one of the most boring books I have ever suffered though just as we should encourage everyone to read the writings of Kafka, Tolstoy, Kipling, Twain, O'Henry, the Dumas', Yeatman, Trotsky and many, many others.
GIA writes:
Books don't discriminate.
Correct. A book is an inanimate object.
I hope this has been informative.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Greatest I am, posted 06-07-2015 9:41 AM Greatest I am has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 89 of 375 (759037)
06-08-2015 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Faith
06-07-2015 10:40 PM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
Faith writes:
So war, murder, exploitation, abuse, rape, slavery, etc etc etc aren't our fault?
They are absolutely our fault and not the fault of some imaginary Fall brought about by some serpent.
The "Fall" is just another example of cop-out; I can't help it we are fallen.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Faith, posted 06-07-2015 10:40 PM Faith has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 92 of 375 (759042)
06-08-2015 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by saab93f
06-08-2015 8:16 AM


respect vs tolerance
The central tenets of all Abrahamic religions are delusions and the adherents fortunately mostly benignly delusional. Then again I personally am struggling between respecting people's beliefs and the desire to tell how there is not a shred of evidence either way.
As not just a theist but a Christian I cannot see any reason that anyone should respect my beliefs. I can see reasons that my beliefs should be tolerated as long as the do not justifiably infringe on others.
Let me expand somewhat.
I believe that there is a God and afterlife and that my behavior while living will be judged after death.
Whether or not that is an accurate reflection of reality is pretty irrelevant; if I try to behave while alive in a way that would be judged as acceptable but there is no judgement or life after death I will still have lived an acceptable life.
I am appalled by the "Jesus paid for our sins" brand of Christianity as a cheap conjob and more than worthless, it is destructive. I have no respect for that snake oil product but do tolerate it since, Thank God, in the US, "The Bible told me so" is not accepted as defense for antisocial behavior.
Beliefs do not deserve respect but I think they do deserve tolerance unless they infringe on others.
Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by saab93f, posted 06-08-2015 8:16 AM saab93f has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Jon, posted 06-08-2015 10:08 AM jar has seen this message but not replied
 Message 98 by Greatest I am, posted 06-08-2015 11:19 AM jar has replied
 Message 101 by MrHambre, posted 06-08-2015 12:32 PM jar has replied
 Message 114 by saab93f, posted 06-09-2015 3:57 AM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 110 of 375 (759068)
06-08-2015 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Greatest I am
06-08-2015 11:19 AM


Re: respect vs tolerance
Gia writes:
I speak to many Christians about that immoral belief they hold. Few, like you, say they are appalled by it. Good for you buddy.
The thing is, without the cross and vicarious redemption, Christianity has nothing to sell. To remain Christian they would have to become Jews and return to that vile demiurge Yahweh.
You would also have to take literal reading out of Christianity and doing so would be them admitting that their priests have been lying all these many years.
I don't think Christians are ready for the truth.
If you do not believe in the savior, do you believe you need saving at all?
If so then you are more like a Gnostic Christian and not a Christian.
Are you a Universalist or does hell exist for you?
But I already told you that I am a Christian.
Yes, priests and apologists and others have lied and still lie.
I still think Christianity has a valid product and concept even without the idea of Jesus paying for others sins.
And of course the Bible should not be taken literally although I think you will find that I do take it far more literally than Faith or so called "Biblical Christians".

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Greatest I am, posted 06-08-2015 11:19 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Greatest I am, posted 06-09-2015 7:14 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 111 of 375 (759069)
06-08-2015 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by MrHambre
06-08-2015 12:32 PM


Re: respect vs tolerance
This isn't to say we shouldn't have discussions about politics, religion, sexuality, or any other subject that people take seriously. But we need to acknowledge that people identify strongly with these beliefs, and we don't need to pretend to be surprised when they react strongly against careless, unsympathetic criticism like being told their beliefs are delusions.
But again, I did not suggest telling folk their beliefs are delusions although in many cases where there is evidence to support such a position I think that is the correct action to take.
For example I have no problem telling folk that Young Earth or that there was some Biblical Flood are simply delusions.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by MrHambre, posted 06-08-2015 12:32 PM MrHambre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by MrHambre, posted 06-08-2015 2:21 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 113 of 375 (759072)
06-08-2015 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by MrHambre
06-08-2015 2:21 PM


Re: respect vs tolerance
Agreed until there is an attempt to impose one set of beliefs about meaning, purpose, and morality outside their community. "I believe you should not do that" or "My Holy book says you should not do that" or "God says" are not sufficient reason to impose anything on anyone else.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by MrHambre, posted 06-08-2015 2:21 PM MrHambre has seen this message but not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 120 of 375 (759118)
06-09-2015 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by Faith
06-09-2015 6:43 AM


Re: "But the second stone, up for grabs."
Faith writes:
Funny how unbelievers think they know so much better what Jesus meant than us Bible believers. Anyway, thank you for your answer.
First, so called "Bible believers" do not believe the Bible but rather they believe their fantasy about what the Bible should actually be saying instead of what is actually written in the stories. It seems that "Bible believers" are incapable of actually reading the Bible.
And the utter nonsense that some Christians might be thrown in jail for their beliefs or hat the preach is just more lying for fun and profit.
Further, it is not "Christians" who get fined for discrimination but rather law breakers.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Faith, posted 06-09-2015 6:43 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Faith, posted 06-09-2015 8:07 AM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 123 of 375 (759127)
06-09-2015 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by Faith
06-09-2015 8:07 AM


"Bible believers" don't believe the Bible.
Well, Jesus was a law breaker and was punished if the stories happen to be true.
But that still has nothing to do with reality. Reality is that "Bible believers" believe their fantasy of what the Bible actually says and revised and edited and interpreted and redacted by all of the thousands of apologists over the last couple thousand years and not what the Bible actually says.
There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that says "Don't bake a wedding cake for a same-sex marriage" and as you have been shown there is instruction that says common courtesy and reality take precedence over obeying God's laws.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Faith, posted 06-09-2015 8:07 AM Faith has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 128 of 375 (759134)
06-09-2015 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Faith
06-09-2015 9:02 AM


More NewThink and NewSpeach from Faith
Faith writes:
When I'm required to sin against God in order to "treat people right" by pretending sin isn't sin I'm surprised the planet doesn't just implode.
Sorry but no Christian has been required to sin against God or pretend what they consider sin is not sin. To claim otherwise is simply not true.
The "Bible believers" are free to think that baking a cake for a same-sex marriage is a sin, they are simply not free to discriminate as a business. And there is NO Biblical basis for not baking a wedding cake for a same-sex marriage.
No "Bible believer" has ever been told they have to marry someone of the same-sex or even approve of a same-sex marriage reception.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Faith, posted 06-09-2015 9:02 AM Faith has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 129 of 375 (759145)
06-09-2015 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by saab93f
06-09-2015 3:57 AM


Re: respect vs tolerance
I agree with thee. Then again - a slippery slope this is. If a believer can justify his/her condemning homosexuals with the Bible or because "that is what the Lord commands" AND that is seen as an acceptable reason by a majority then what? In the US (at least that is what it looks like to an outsider) saying God or telling that the Bible says so seems to be a "Get out of Jail -card" because it is intended to shut the mouths of the opposition - how can anyone rise against the "Good Book"...
In the US (although also applicable to other places but as an American I will limit my comments to the US) we did allow "God said" as an affirmative defense for a long time. But we evolve and that works less and each year. Of course there will also be set backs and evolution is not single direction or uniform.
Condemning folk, damning folk, considering folk as lower than slime, as sinners is, thank God, protected here in the US. We have the right to label folk, to disapprove of folk, to not associate with folk and even to hate, despise and denigrate folk in private lives, private organization and in our chosen religion. We have the right to publicly castigate, rebuke, chastise, scold, admonish, reprove or chide anyone for their beliefs, characteristics, sex, behavior, dress, food. smell, national origin, religion, political or cultural association.
What we do not have is the right to act beyond speech on those things outside some private association, private organization or religion.
Is it perfect?
Nope.
Is is always effective?
Nope.
But we do seem to be moving slowly towards a better society.
Our biggest issue is still our failure to teach kids how to think and this limits everything above. If we teach that "God says so" is an affirmative defense then we get the society we create.
If you read the posts here from the "Bible believers" I'm sure you have noticed that they do not actually believe what the Bible says but rather what they have been told the Bible says. This creates the absurdities we see in this and other threads as well as in the news.
Education though is difficult, painful and almost often a matter of teaching people what they don't want to know.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by saab93f, posted 06-09-2015 3:57 AM saab93f has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by saab93f, posted 06-10-2015 8:38 AM jar has replied

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