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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Origin of the Flood Layers | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Only his opinion is acceptable. Or antiFloodists' opinion anyway. First, not all "opinions" or interpretations are of equal value. And second, you were peddling belief that is completely contradicted by scientific evidence in the Science Forum. Religious belief unsupported by evidence just doesn't belong in that forum.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
I just love it when creationists pick on scientists for their use of "assumptions."
To a creationist an assumption seems to mean "automatically wrong." But scientists do not use assumptions that are not supported by evidence. What good is an incorrect assumption? That gets you nowhere. On the other hand, creationists base their entire belief system on an assumption--that the bible is correct. And this is in spite of a massive amount of evidence that the young earth and global flood beliefs are absolutely wrong. So, scientists use assumptions that are well-supported by evidence and creationists hate it, but then creationists turn around and rely on assumptions that are absolutely contradicted by evidence and think that's just grand. As Heinlein noted, "Belief gets in the way of learning..."Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. |
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
For a scientist to debate these issues with Faith/faith is useless.
No amount of evidence will change a mind that is rusted shut.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Wish I could get it across better. The reason you are having so much trouble here and in many other threads is that you are vastly ignorant of the subjects on which you are opining. It is a willful and self-imposed ignorance. Your head is stuffed so full of dogmatic beliefs that you won't, indeed can't, see something that contradicts those beliefs. This leads you to all sorts of conjectures that you "know" are correct, and you simply can't see why they are wrong even though you are presented with massive amounts of evidence that shows how and why they are wrong. Most of us here are ignorant in fields outside of our specialties, but we endeavor to learn something about a given field before we start posting.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Faith, you discredit your beliefs by posting the way do you.
Who can trust someone to be accurate in anything when they have shown themselves to be so inaccurate so often? St. Augustine's commentary on Genesis (De Genesi ad litteram libri duodecim), says it well:
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
I make logical sense in plain English. I am not interested in scientific accuracy, only in getting across some perfectly logical observations. It's not hard to get with some good will and some suspension of the obsessive pedantry you all take for science. But as usual it's a lost cause as I knew anyway. We know you aren't interested in scientific accuracy, but rather scriptural purity. But you are making many "perfectly logical observations" which are categorically and demonstrably wrong. Scientists are trained to root out errors, so it would not be logical to expect us to just blindly accept your statements and not to attempt to correct the errors we see. This is a debate board, after all. What you see as "obsessive pedantry" is just the result of our addressing the same errors time and again, year after year, with no observable effect. It is amazing that the posters here are as patient as they are.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Model: a simplified representation designed to illuminate complex processes; a hypothetical description of a complex entity or process; a physical or mathematical representation of a process that can be used to predict some aspect of the process; a representation such that knowledge concerning the model offers insight about the entity modelled. Note: models are designed to be tested against real-world data. The success of a model is directly related to how well it predicts or "models" something. If some predictions of a model are found to be wrong, that casts doubt upon the model. If many predictions of a model are found to be wrong, that model is probably worthless. Edit to add: Actually a model that is wrong may not be entirely worthless. It may be useful in that it documents a particular approach as being unproductive. Edited by Coyote, : AdditionReligious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. |
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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As usual I have another scenario in mind about how it could have happened after the strata above it were in place but I'm tired of battling all this right now so you are spared an attack of high blood pressure or whatever it does to you. Faith, your "what-ifs" are not evidence. What you are doing is the functional equivalent to explaining how the moon came to be made of green cheese. An equivalent "what-if" might be that a really giant mouse dropped it on the way through the solar system. Another, more detailed what-if might be that the moon was once made of skim milk and the herb, blue fenugreek (Trigonella caerulea), and a little heat, some pressing, and then some drying turned it into a nice Schabziger cheese. You could even add the date that all these events occurred, as well as a lot more accompanying details. But no matter how much detail you add, it does not change the fact that the moon is not made of green cheese. A whole ark-load of what-ifs does not add up to a single piece of evidence. Likewise, there was never a global flood during human times.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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The thing about my what-ifs as you call them, is that they are in many cases plausible alternatives to the conventional view. I think just the alternative views I've accumulated so far, in both geology and biology, add up to a very serious challenge to the conventional view. You never know, one of these days such a what-if may actually present itself with the inescapable evidence I've been hoping to find. The problem with your "what-ifs" is they are not evidence based, and as such not "plausible." In some cases they are mutually exclusive! And in virtually all cases (or maybe all cases) they are contradicted by an ark-load of evidence. If all of your "what-ifs" were internally consistent and evidence based, you'd have something. The problem is they are ad-hoc explanations made up on the spur of the moment with no supporting evidence, no attempt to be internally consistent and in accordance with the evidence, and designed solely to support religious belief. Talk about a house of cards! Cards are sturdy in comparison.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Most of the "refutations" are built on complete misunderstandings of the point I'm making. I get tired of trying to correct them. Sorry, no. We understand very well what you are trying to claim. In almost every case your claims are wrong and we have the evidence to show that. You make things up not to convince us, but to provide you "what-ifs" so that you can continue to think your beliefs are accurate, or at least not contradicted. That lets you continue to hold those beliefs since if you were to accept that your what-ifs are wrong, you would no longer be able to hold those beliefs. So, you cast a cloud of what-ifs all around you, use them as a shield, and replace them as necessary. All without ever worrying much about how sensible they are, how accurate they are, or the ark-loads of evidence that contradicts them. You see, their purpose is not to fool us, but only to fool yourself...Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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But "Archaeologists get to the bottom of things!"
(Although "Our lives are in ruins.")Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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