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Author Topic:   Evidence that the Great Unconformity did not Form Before the Strata above it
jar
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Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 4 of 1939 (752811)
03-13-2015 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by PaulK
03-13-2015 8:47 AM


why it is called "Great"
The tilted strata only survive where they have been lowered by faulting. Everywhere else they are gone.

And that is where the designation "Great" came from.

There is so much missing that the whole structure must have been at the surface so that the missing parts could get eroded away. The layers in the part remaining end abruptly which show they were separated from the original through faulting. The fact that they remain shows tha they were lowered during a seismic even and so protected from the weathering that removed all the rest.

The fact that what remains is made up of layers also shows that it was not created during any single event but rather through normal deposition over time.

When all is considered it reveals a history, layers were deposited over time. Each lower layer remained undisturbed as the other layers were deposited.

There was a seismic event where part of the surface subsided.

The parts remaining at the surface were eroded away helping to cover and preserve the part that subsided.

Eventually additional deposition covered all, again involving separate events and rock types.

AbE:

an illustration that helps explain what is meant by "Great Unconformity".

It is not the rocks that are still there but rather the over one billion years of rock that are not there.

Edited by jar, : see AbE:


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 7 of 1939 (752831)
03-13-2015 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by PaulK
03-13-2015 2:12 PM


bigger problem
A far bigger problem for Faith is to explain how all the the material eroded away if it did not get formed before the strata above it.

Faith has offered no explanation for the unconformity itself, for over two miles of missing material.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
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Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 16 of 1939 (752848)
03-13-2015 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Faith
03-13-2015 5:16 PM


Re: Sediments make layers over mounds?
Faith.

Over two vertical miles of rock are missing.

What is the model, method, procedure, mechanism, process that can remove over two miles of various layers of rock totally if it was not at the surface?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 21 of 1939 (752858)
03-13-2015 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
03-13-2015 6:41 PM


where did it go?
Faith.

Over two vertical miles of rock are missing.

What is the model, method, procedure, mechanism, process that can remove over two miles of various layers of rock totally if it was not at the surface?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 23 by Faith, posted 03-13-2015 7:13 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 24 of 1939 (752863)
03-13-2015 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Faith
03-13-2015 7:13 PM


Re: where did it go?
Well, no Faith I'm not talking about your fantasies.

I even provided an illustration that I thought might help you.

The reality is that part of the Tonto Group lies directly on the Vishnu Schist; the whole two miles of the Super Group are missing.

Nothing about phantom mountains.

What you need to do is provide a model, method, procedure, process, mechanism to explain how the whole section of the Super Group could get eroded away if it did not exist before the Tonto Group was formed.

It really is that simple.

We are all waiting.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 28 of 1939 (752868)
03-13-2015 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Faith
03-13-2015 7:48 PM


Re: where did it go?
Faith writes:

Then the missing stuff is incorporated in the Vishnu schist:

Too funny but again, you are just making shit up.

What is the model, method, procedure, process, mechanism to explain how the whole section of the Super Group could get "incorporated into the Vishnu Schist"?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 25 by Faith, posted 03-13-2015 7:48 PM Faith has responded

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jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 33 of 1939 (752874)
03-13-2015 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Faith
03-13-2015 8:21 PM


Re: where did it go?
Faith writes:

My theory fits the conclusion that the Vishnu is made up of lots of different kinds of rocks. They sheared off the SuperGroup under great pressure from the force that pushed it all upward into the mound shape and there was magma from beneath as well which probably was released by the same tectonic force, and the magma fried the sheared off rock into schist.

More simply made up shit Faith.

Where is the evidence of the magma, that anything got sheered off and fried part of the many different layers of the Super Group into the Vishnu Schist?

Evidence Faith.

Events leave evidence.

Here we find over two vertical miles of material simply missing and the Tonto Group lying directly on the Vishnu Schist.

What is the model, method, procedure, process, mechanism to explain how the whole section of the Super Group could get "incorporated into the Vishnu Schist"?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
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Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 40 of 1939 (752893)
03-14-2015 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Faith
03-14-2015 10:58 AM


Re: where did it go?
Faith writes:

Paul says that GOD can be ascertained in Nature, not truth about Nature itself.

And it's ridiculous to say that nature and the Bible are equal sources of truth. Nature has to be figured out by fallible humanity, but the Bible is written to us in actual language. This is in fact the most transparently self-serving rationalization for Christians to accept the Old Earth.

Yet none of the falsehoods, contradictions and factual errors found in the Bible are found in Nature.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 42 of 1939 (752899)
03-14-2015 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Faith
03-14-2015 11:08 AM


the Great uncomformity proves the Earth is old
Faith writes:

Well I had hope for it as proof that the G.U. was not formed before the strata above it, which IS a new emphasis.

Unfortunately for you all the evidence shows that the Great Unconformity was laid down before the layers above it and in addition demands that the earth is at least old enough to create all the layers of the Super Group and also then erode over two vertical miles of material and then lay down all of the layers currently above the Super Group.

Young Earth is DeadOnArrival.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 41 by Faith, posted 03-14-2015 11:08 AM Faith has responded

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 Message 44 by Faith, posted 03-14-2015 12:39 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 47 of 1939 (752905)
03-14-2015 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Faith
03-14-2015 12:39 PM


Re: the Great uncomformity proves the Earth is old
Faith writes:

But if it happened as I visualize it less time would be needed. The layers of the SuperGroup were laid down followed shortly by all the layers above it, up to the very top of the Grand Staircase, as those layers were originally over the Grand Canyon area too; after which tectonic force pushed the land up violently into the mounded uplift, breaking and tilting the SuperGroup, shearing off the upper parts against the underside of the Tapeats, its rubble becoming schist under the intense pressure and heat, the heat being generated partly by the release of magma beneath the area (its fingers are seen on the cross section) which also created the granite that is also beneath the canyon.

But of course you offer no model, method, process, procedure, that would make what you claim possible.

In addition there is no evidence that any magma ever intruded into the Super Group or could possibly incorporate parts of the Super Group into the Vishnu Schist.

You are just making shit up.

Faith writes:

The strata would have been laid down over a year or so, the tectonic upheaval would have occurred afterward, created the G.U. cracked the upper strata over the canyon area which opened up the canyon, all the upper strata down to the Kaibab being washed away in the receding Flood waters, also carving the Grand Staircase, where a magma dike was also released at this time.

Except again you have never presented a model, method, mechanism, process or procedure where that might be possible.(don't worry, no other honest person has ever done that either)

Sorry Faith but Young Earth is not just DeadOnArrival it is a really stupid idea.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Faith, posted 03-14-2015 12:39 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Faith, posted 03-14-2015 12:57 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 55 of 1939 (752913)
03-14-2015 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Faith
03-14-2015 12:57 PM


Re: the Great uncomformity proves the Earth is old
Faith writes:

However, I wasn't thinking of its intrusion into the Super Group, but the Super Group's being surrounded by schist and granite, both of which show the presence of volcanic influence.

But the Super Group is not surrounded by schist and granite so once again you are just making shit up.

Faith writes:

As I just said, you can see the indication of the magma fingers on the cross section.

Yes and an honest person can also see the extent of such intrusions and that they are unrelated to the Super Group.

And you still have never offered any model, mechanism, method, process, procedure to create over two vertical miles of material, erode those two miles away and then lay down all of the other layers that are above the Super Group as well as lower every thing so that several of those later layers are created under a sea, and then raise the whole shebang to over a mile above sea level.

We await your presentation of the model, mechanism, method, process or procedure.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 49 by Faith, posted 03-14-2015 12:57 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 72 of 1939 (752949)
03-14-2015 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Faith
03-14-2015 6:36 PM


Bible falsehoods vs. Reality
Faith writes:

And when Science actively contradicts the Bible, as the Theory of Evolution and Old Earthism do, there is nothing at all you should even try to say in its defense. It's false and it is misleading people, particularly gullible Christians. I agree that creationism has also misled people who haven't been prepared for what these Sciences actually do, but that doesn't justify the all-out attempt to convert them to the false Sciences.

For a Christian to believe the Bible over the evidence of nature and the world simply makes God look like a liar and fool. It is false and it is misleading people, particularly gullible "Bible Christians".

Any one who accepts the Bible over nature is only blaspheming the Holy Spirit and deserves pity.

Edited by jar, : fix sub-title


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 87 of 1939 (752968)
03-15-2015 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by kbertsche
03-15-2015 8:44 AM


Re: Bible truth vs. Science
I believe that death of animals is indeed natural. They don't sin so they don't need a Savior. Death only of man is a consequence of sin (Rom 5:12ff).

I wish you would start a thread on that in one of the F&B forums since neither your position or Faith's position or even Paul's position seem to make any sense Biblically.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 107 of 1939 (753003)
03-15-2015 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Faith
03-15-2015 5:21 PM


the Super Group is NOT the Great Unconformity
Faith writes:

But the Great Unconformity IS the Supergroup, tilted and broken. If the Supergroup is composed of strata, so is the G.U.

No Faith, the Great Unconformity is where the Super Group is NOT there. It is where stuff is missing, over two vertical miles of rock is missing.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 110 of 1939 (753006)
03-15-2015 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Faith
03-15-2015 5:56 PM


but that is what it is.
The Great Unconformity is where all of the layers of the Super Group were eroded away and is evidenced by the Tonto Group making direct contact with the Vishnu Schist.

It is where over two miles of rock was worn away, eroded away before any of the Tonto Group was laid down.

It is over one billion years of missing rock.

If it took a billion years for the layers of the Super Group to get laid down originally then it took well over a billion years to lay the layers down and then erode all of them away.

The Great Unconformity is just one of the literally tens of thousands of evidences that the Earth is old.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Faith, posted 03-15-2015 5:56 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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