Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,742 Year: 3,999/9,624 Month: 870/974 Week: 197/286 Day: 4/109 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Evidence that the Great Unconformity did not Form Before the Strata above it
jar
Member (Idle past 419 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 594 of 1939 (754612)
03-29-2015 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 588 by Faith
03-29-2015 11:10 AM


Re: Navajo Sandstone
Faith writes:
There is no angular unconformity there.
Why do you claim there are no angular unconformities in the Navajo Sandstone when in fact one of the major facets that identify the Navajo Sandstone as aeolian are the repeated cycles of angular unconformities created by the differential of summer and winter winds?
image from site linked above:

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 588 by Faith, posted 03-29-2015 11:10 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 419 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 610 of 1939 (754630)
03-29-2015 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 609 by edge
03-29-2015 12:37 PM


Re: Navajo Sandstone
Don't forget the evidence for the unconformities in the Navajo Sandstone; the clear demarcation between events with direct evidence that erosion occurred before the next higher layer was formed.
And I can't wait to see Faith's magic reason that "Yes, I absolutely believe that sand dunes AS sand dunes cannot be lithified and incorporated into the geological record." as she claims in Message 606.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 609 by edge, posted 03-29-2015 12:37 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 612 by edge, posted 03-29-2015 1:07 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 419 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 613 of 1939 (754633)
03-29-2015 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 612 by edge
03-29-2015 1:07 PM


Re: Navajo Sandstone
Remember the magic flood does amazing things.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 612 by edge, posted 03-29-2015 1:07 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 617 by edge, posted 03-29-2015 1:24 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 419 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 621 of 1939 (754641)
03-29-2015 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 620 by edge
03-29-2015 1:39 PM


unconformities can show minimum time spans
Do you think that gaps record time? The geological record is not a tape recorder, Faith. The question is how long did it take to deposit the rocks, not how long to erode them away.
Of course we can often set minimum time spans; for example we can say with a very high confidence level that the Great Unconformity represents a gap of over two billion years since it took over two billion years to lay down the Super Group plus some unknown period of time to erode it away.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 620 by edge, posted 03-29-2015 1:39 PM edge has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 419 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 628 of 1939 (754659)
03-29-2015 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 627 by Admin
03-29-2015 4:44 PM


Re: Navajo Sandstone
An angular unconformity is a perfect description of what is seen in the Navajo Sandstone as I pointed out back in Message 594.
Repeating the image from that post and from the explanatory link in that post.
If you look at that picture you will see horizontal bands of sand which truncate the crossbedded bands abruptly and is clear evidence of a period when the peaks of the lower dunes got eroded away and a layer of material (not showing cross bedding) was laid down followed by renewed dune building. In fact in the picture you can see several such interruptions where unknown amounts of already deposited material was eroded away.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 627 by Admin, posted 03-29-2015 4:44 PM Admin has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 419 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 632 of 1939 (754667)
03-29-2015 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 631 by herebedragons
03-29-2015 9:20 PM


Re: Flood pattern erosion-deposition
There is yet another big problem which is that if there is non-basement rocks that could be scoured away by the 40day and 40 nights of rain in sufficient quantity to account for the existing sedimentary rock formations the basic materials; sand, pebbles, boulders, minerals, dirt, loam, limestone, calcium, ... all need to already exist even before the rain starts. That requires erosion, weathering, transportation and deposition.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 631 by herebedragons, posted 03-29-2015 9:20 PM herebedragons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 633 by herebedragons, posted 03-29-2015 10:06 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 419 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 634 of 1939 (754669)
03-29-2015 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 633 by herebedragons
03-29-2015 10:06 PM


Re: Flood pattern erosion-deposition
If we are gonna jess pick up the material needed to explain the layers above the Vishnu Schist would we only need a mile of material?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 633 by herebedragons, posted 03-29-2015 10:06 PM herebedragons has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 419 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 636 of 1939 (754673)
03-29-2015 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 635 by Faith
03-29-2015 10:22 PM


Re: Flood pattern erosion-deposition
Faith writes:
Problem is that implies volcanism, which in this scenario didn't exist pre-Flood.
Of course there is absolutely no mention of volcanism in either of the Biblical flood myths and no mechanism for flooding causing volcanoes.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 635 by Faith, posted 03-29-2015 10:22 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 637 by Coyote, posted 03-29-2015 11:08 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 419 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 646 of 1939 (754685)
03-30-2015 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 643 by Faith
03-30-2015 3:39 AM


Re: Flood pattern erosion-deposition
Faith writes:
Of course it can explain the limestone, or the huge amounts of any of the deposits. All I meant was that it originates in the sea so that would have been the source of its deposition as per Walther's Law.
Again Faith, reality has totally refuted that assertion as you have been shown again and again.
The Navajo Sandstone is aeolian and so cannot have been deposited by a flood.
All of the fossils found also refute your idea of hydrological sorting during a flood. We never find human remains in the same area as dinosaurs yet we do find human remains even older than 6000 years all over the world.
Now it's fine for you to keep claiming that every scientist has the dates wrong but so far you have never provided any evidence, any model, any method, any mechanism, any process, any procedure that can explain why anyone should believe you as opposed to what reality itself tells us.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 643 by Faith, posted 03-30-2015 3:39 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 419 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 660 of 1939 (754725)
03-30-2015 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 659 by edge
03-30-2015 4:15 PM


Re: Flood pattern erosion-deposition
This just gets funnier and funnier; Faith never let's us down.
If Faith's imaginary made up magic flood with magic rain happened we must see a clear pattern of a severe erosion event comparable to the Great Unconformity at every point above sea level during the last 6000 years followed by a single sea transgression event that follows the contours of the land that was above sea level during the last six years from low point to high point followed by a single deposition period of all that slurry with more deposition in the sea and decreasing in depth as we move from low point to high point and again followed by a single regression event that again follows the contours of all the land that was above sea level 6000 years ago but this time from high point to low point.
This pattern must be repeated at every point world wide but only if one of the Biblical floods actually happened.
Of course should we find that reality is not as neat as her fantasy then of course it would be proof that all she has is her fantasy.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 659 by edge, posted 03-30-2015 4:15 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 661 by edge, posted 03-30-2015 6:23 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 419 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 666 of 1939 (754737)
03-31-2015 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 665 by Pressie
03-31-2015 12:21 AM


how long ago was 4230 years?
I think Faith needs to help us understand when exactly 4230 years ago really was. Was the formation of the Siberian trap less that 4230 years ago? How long ago did the Deccan trap form? When was the Ontong Java Plateau created? What about the flood basalts found in Baffin Island? And then there is the relatively young Columbia River basalt formations.
If all of these happened during the last 4000 (or 6000) years, why did no one notice?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 665 by Pressie, posted 03-31-2015 12:21 AM Pressie has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 667 by Faith, posted 03-31-2015 10:46 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 419 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 671 of 1939 (754743)
03-31-2015 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 667 by Faith
03-31-2015 10:46 AM


Re: how long ago was 4230 years?
Faith writes:
I thought it was 4350 years but what's a thousand give or take?No reason why those volcanic fields needed millions of years. If it all occurred since the Flood, which of course it did, why did nobody notice?, you ask. Probably because it occurred during that last phase of the Flood along with the tectonic movement, when there were only eight people in the world. Although the sons of Noah were having children within a few years of the Flood it would have been a few decades before they had appreciable numbers of grandchildren, and a hundred or more years before a population of any size was beginning to develop. No reason the volcanic fields wouldn't have long since cooled down by then.
And your evidence to support all that is?
There is absolutely no evidence of flood related volcanic activity in either of the Bible stories or in reality.
The examples I mentioned are fair size things and yes, all of the evidence shows that they did take more than 6000 years to form. The Ontong Java Plateau is nearly twenty miles thick, not a thin layer that would cool off in a year or even a decade. The Deccan Traps are over a mile thick and cover almost 200,000 square miles. The Siberian Traps cover an area about the size of western Europe.
Each of these events is directly related to periods of severe die-offs and there is no reasonable explanation of how anyone on the Ark would have survived.
None of them are under water flood basalt.
Faith you keep making claims like "Probably because it occurred during that last phase of the Flood along with the tectonic movement, when there were only eight people in the world." yet provide no evidence, no model, no method, no mechanism, no process, no procedure that would explain either your tectonic activity or volcanism while reality, the evidence that does exist shows that they did each happen over periods far longer than 6000 years and that they all happened at different periods separated by millions of years.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 667 by Faith, posted 03-31-2015 10:46 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 672 by Faith, posted 03-31-2015 11:38 AM jar has replied
 Message 673 by edge, posted 03-31-2015 11:45 AM jar has not replied
 Message 674 by Faith, posted 03-31-2015 11:45 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 419 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 682 of 1939 (754754)
03-31-2015 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 672 by Faith
03-31-2015 11:38 AM


Re: how long ago was 4230 years?
Faith writes:
Jar, you complain all the time about my lack of evidence but I rarely see you producing any evidence for your outlandish claims. You make all kinds of assertions about evidence, rarely actually show any. There was no underwater basalt you say, well, there didn't necessarily have to be in my scenario either, if most of the eruptions occurred after the water had receded, but you don't give your evidence in any case, you just assert it.
Well, Faith, as usual you are again misrepresenting what I had said. I did not say "There was no underwater basalt you say" rather that the examples I listed did not happen underwater. That was in response to your claim that "Probably because it occurred during that last phase of the Flood along with the tectonic movement, when there were only eight people in the world." where you claim it did happen during the flood.
Also did I not post "The examples I mentioned are fair size things and yes, all of the evidence shows that they did take more than 6000 years to form. The Ontong Java Plateau is nearly twenty miles thick, not a thin layer that would cool off in a year or even a decade. The Deccan Traps are over a mile thick and cover almost 200,000 square miles. The Siberian Traps cover an area about the size of western Europe.
Each of these events is directly related to periods of severe die-offs and there is no reasonable explanation of how anyone on the Ark would have survived"?
All of these are supported by evidence; the Ontong Java Plateau size can be found here and the evidence is that it really is nearly 20 miles thick, and the Deccan Trap information here and you can check my assertions about the Siberian Traps here.
The mass die offs associated whith each event are also well evidenced.
Perhaps Faith it is time you stop lying about what others do and instead begin producing some evidence, some model, mechanism, method, process or procedure that might explain how your magic flood with magic rain might work.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 672 by Faith, posted 03-31-2015 11:38 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 683 by Faith, posted 03-31-2015 12:10 PM jar has not replied
 Message 684 by Faith, posted 03-31-2015 12:14 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 419 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 688 of 1939 (754762)
03-31-2015 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 684 by Faith
03-31-2015 12:14 PM


Re: how long ago was 4230 years?
Faith writes:
Even if it took a few hundred or a thousand years to cool off completely there was nobody in Siberia during that period and India would only have been beginning to be populated, probably nowhere near the Deccan traps.
Again, based on actual evidence as opposed to fantasy, no one had to be near to have been affected; the die offs during the same periods as the events listed were world wide and not just local.
Faith writes:
Again your "evidence" is a lot of mental manipulation based on the silly idea that the strata represent time periods and that their fossil contents tell you what was living in such and such a time. That is a patheticaly ridiculous idea of evidence.
Stop misrepresenting what folk have said Faith.
What I have presented is actual evidence. If you wish to claim that it happened quickly then you need to explain the model, method, mechanism, process or procedure that could account for the evidence and stop just invoking magic floods from magic rain. In addition, fossil records do tell us what died at those times and guess what, no humans or lions or tigers or bears or bunnies or ohmys were included.
If the flood did what either of the Biblical flood myths claimed why are there no humans or lions or tigers or bears or bunnies or ohmys included in the fossils you claim originated during the magical flood?
Faith writes:
But I apologize if I misread you about underwater basalt. So maybe there was some underwater basalt? The "last phase of the Flood" was when the water was receding, volcanism may or may not have been under water.
Yet none of the examples listed originated under water.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 684 by Faith, posted 03-31-2015 12:14 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 692 by Faith, posted 03-31-2015 12:58 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 419 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 698 of 1939 (754773)
03-31-2015 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 692 by Faith
03-31-2015 12:58 PM


Re: how long ago was 4230 years?
Faith writes:
All based on the bogus evidence of the false interpretation of the strata and their fossil contents. Of course those show worldwide effects, they represent what died in the worldwide Flood, not in the volcanism that came after the Flood, by which time all the strata were laid down and all the dead things in the fossil record thoroughly dead. Such a JOKE to peer into one of the strata and make claims about what supposedly happened during a mythical time period assigned to that block of rock. Like reading tea leaves.
Are you claiming that the critters actually found are not the critters actually found?
If either of the Biblical flood actually happened would it not have killed what the stories say it killed? How did the magic flood keep from depositing any humans or lions or tigers or bears or bunnies or ohmys?
What is bogus about claiming that what is actually found in reality is what is actually there in reality?
What is bogus in pointing out that humans or lions or tigers or bears or bunnies or ohmys never show up in those layers when in fact humans or lions or tigers or bears or bunnies or ohmys never show up in those levels?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 692 by Faith, posted 03-31-2015 12:58 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 700 by Faith, posted 03-31-2015 1:28 PM jar has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024