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Author Topic:   Evidence that the Great Unconformity did not Form Before the Strata above it
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 768 of 1939 (754849)
03-31-2015 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 763 by Faith
03-31-2015 9:01 PM


Re: houses
By ddrawing conclusions from the way things seem to them, things that can't be proved,
But science works. The explanations can be used to make predictions and lead to new discoveries. Things do end up behaving in the ways that they seem to scientists, even behaviors that occurred in the distant past but are only discovered these days.
If they were all terribly wrong then that couldn't happen.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 763 by Faith, posted 03-31-2015 9:01 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 771 by Faith, posted 03-31-2015 10:13 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 773 of 1939 (754854)
03-31-2015 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 771 by Faith
03-31-2015 10:13 PM


Re: houses
SCIENCE works.
But Old Earthism and Evolution are...
Old Earthism and Evolution work just as well and the same as the rest of science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 771 by Faith, posted 03-31-2015 10:13 PM Faith has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 781 of 1939 (754863)
04-01-2015 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 775 by Faith
03-31-2015 11:00 PM


So now we're just slinging slogans. Is too science, is not, is too, is not.
Not really, I'm talking about the stuff that works. I don't care if you call it science or not.
And this is exactly what I keep objecting to as ridiculous, the whole idea of imputing long eras of time to slabs of different kinds of rock.
Okay, so what works instead?
They say it's evidence for the Old Earth, while all I can do is roll my eyes at such an idea.
But you don't even really understand it, which was proved by your wholly inaccurate caracature.
Just as tney expect it to be intuitively obvious that it implies an old earth and evolution, I regard it as intuitively obvious that the idea is absurd in the extreme.
But you don't even have the knowledge to grasp what you're actually looking at, which was proved by the drawings you made.
There is no evidence on either side, you are persuaded of either one or the other by your own subjective judgment.
But I know this isn't true, because some of the explanations work and others don't. The ones from what I'm calling the scientific side can provide examples and reasoning, in the form of objective evidence, for why their explanation works.
Do you think that you have also done that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 775 by Faith, posted 03-31-2015 11:00 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 782 by Faith, posted 04-01-2015 12:09 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 783 of 1939 (754866)
04-01-2015 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 782 by Faith
04-01-2015 12:09 AM


Okay, I drop my claims of your misunderstandings, and I'll assume that you do understand it, can you now answer my questions:
quote:
And this is exactly what I keep objecting to as ridiculous, the whole idea of imputing long eras of time to slabs of different kinds of rock.
Okay, so what works instead?
quote:
There is no evidence on either side, you are persuaded of either one or the other by your own subjective judgment.
But I know this isn't true, because some of the explanations work and others don't. The ones from what I'm calling the scientific side can provide examples and reasoning, in the form of objective evidence, for why their explanation works.
Do you think that you have also done that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 782 by Faith, posted 04-01-2015 12:09 AM Faith has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 877 of 1939 (755248)
04-06-2015 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 869 by Faith
04-06-2015 9:49 PM


Re: Speed Assumptions
If you take the current rate and apply it to dated objects in geology it all works out just right.
Gosh what a coincidence, eh?
{Isn't this what you said to me back in Message 827 where it made no sense?}
Staight from the wiki page on consilience:
quote:
In science and history, consilience (also convergence of evidence or concordance of evidence) refers to the principle that evidence from independent, unrelated sources can "converge" to strong conclusions. That is, when multiple sources of evidence are in agreement, the conclusion can be very strong even when none of the individual sources of evidence are very strong on their own. Most established scientific knowledge is supported by a convergence of evidence: if not, the evidence is comparatively weak, and there will not likely be a strong scientific consensus.
The principle is based on the unity of knowledge; measuring the same result by several different methods should lead to the same answer. For example, it should not matter whether one measures the distance between the Great Pyramids of Giza by laser rangefinding, by satellite imaging, or with a meter stick - in all three cases, the answer should be approximately the same. For the same reason, different dating methods in geochronology should concur, a result in chemistry should not contradict a result in geology, etc.
In all the years we've been here I don't recall you ever addressing the consilience of data for an old earth.
The only YEC explanation that I'm aware of is that God has to be tricking us all into thinking the earth is old, e.g. omphalism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 869 by Faith, posted 04-06-2015 9:49 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 889 by Faith, posted 04-07-2015 12:49 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 894 of 1939 (755293)
04-07-2015 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 889 by Faith
04-07-2015 12:49 AM


Re: Speed Assumptions
I don't believe there is any consilience of data, it's all subjective interpretation.
That's just because you can't believe that there is consilience of the data, or else your whole fantasy falls apart.
In reality, there is consilience. Its easily found and easily demonstrable. It is objective quantified measurements, there's no subjective interpretation at all.
You've been shown this over and over again but you just can't allow yourself to "believe" it. So really, there's no point in me trying to show it to you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 889 by Faith, posted 04-07-2015 12:49 AM Faith has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 1083 of 1939 (755915)
04-13-2015 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1082 by NosyNed
04-13-2015 11:18 AM


Re: Bump for Faith
I'm still curious about what you meant.
Here's what she said in Message 889, in response to me pointing out the consilience of the data:
quote:
I don't believe there is any consilience of data, it's all subjective interpretation. Of COURSE it all fits together. Sort of.
By "coincidence", she means that scientists have set up the consilience through their subjective interpretations and that it isn't actually real to begin with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1082 by NosyNed, posted 04-13-2015 11:18 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 1245 of 1939 (756272)
04-17-2015 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1239 by saab93f
04-17-2015 7:50 AM


Re: STENO'S PRINCIPLES OF STRATIGRAPHY: ORIGINAL HORIZONTALITY, ETC
Why is it Faith that you have such hostility towards geology? The geologists are not out there to prove or disprove any deity but to enhance our understanding of the lithosphere.
To me you sound like a person whod be willing to shout at the heart surgeons how bad a job theyre doing because youd watched a couple of episodes of "Dr House" and were familiar with words lupus or auto-immune.
Its the Dunning-Kruger effect in full swing:
quote:
The Dunning—Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than is accurate. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their ineptitude. Conversely, highly skilled individuals tend to underestimate their relative competence, erroneously assuming that tasks which are easy for them are also easy for others.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1239 by saab93f, posted 04-17-2015 7:50 AM saab93f has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1247 by herebedragons, posted 04-17-2015 12:41 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 1360 of 1939 (756512)
04-21-2015 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1353 by Faith
04-21-2015 11:14 AM


That's because the request seems meaningless and unnecessary and I still see it that way. Horizontal is horizontal, why the quibbling?
Its because you've said that certain sedimentary layers could not have formed through sedimentation because they are not horizontal enough.
That makes people question how horizontal you think something has to be before you could accept that it was the result of sedimentation.
You have yet to tell us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1353 by Faith, posted 04-21-2015 11:14 AM Faith has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 1426 of 1939 (756605)
04-23-2015 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1425 by Faith
04-23-2015 2:25 PM


Re: draped sandstone continued
The larger circled area shows the general disturbance that occurred in the stack at that point, and the smaller circled area shows where the layer itself was broken. These are clear indicators that the layer was already formed when the disturbance occurred that caused the left side to sag. Formed enough to break but soft enough to sag.
You're assuming it was just one event when they could have been separate events.
The layer could have "sagged" while it was being deposited and then later after it solidified the circled parts broke off.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1425 by Faith, posted 04-23-2015 2:25 PM Faith has not replied

  
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