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Author Topic:   The Brand New Birther Thread
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 196 of 218 (795774)
12-15-2016 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Faith
12-15-2016 4:46 PM


Re: The Kenyan grandmother's story
Dr. A made up his theory about how the mistake in the book was supposedly made ...
I presented a plausible hypothesis. Which is more than you have done. You've got as far as ruling out magic, which I appreciate must have been a big step for you. Now, how do you suppose Goderich arrived at THE SECRET TRUTH, nearly two decades before anyone else had an inkling of it?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Faith, posted 12-15-2016 4:46 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Faith, posted 12-15-2016 5:34 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 197 of 218 (795775)
12-15-2016 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Faith
12-15-2016 4:46 PM


Who is a Natural Born Citizen
Faith writes:
jar keeps spouting out his weary opinions with no evidence
Except what I have actually been presenting are the facts of the case, not opinions.
Where Obama was born is irrelevant. His mother was a US Citizen at the time of his birth and so he was a Natural Born Citizen.
That is not opinion but rather the conclusion based on the US Constitution, British Civil Laws, and the court cases, legislative acts and vast body of evidence since the very first Congress.
Here you can read a short summary from the Harvard Law Review which can be summarized as anyone who does not require Naturalization to become a citizen is a Natural Born citizen.
It is a fact that being a Muslim does not preclude being President. Again, that is not opinion but rather specifically outlined in the US Constitution Article VI as I provided you already.
It is a fact the being a Communist does not preclude someone from being a US President. In fact there have been Communist (and even Socialist) Party candidates in many US elections since 1928.
It is a fact that having a history of planning to become President does not preclude someone from becoming President and even being funded by Soros is not a bar to becoming President.
These are not opinion Faith but rather facts and reality.
Ain't reality a bitch?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Faith, posted 12-15-2016 4:46 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 198 of 218 (795776)
12-15-2016 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Dr Adequate
12-15-2016 5:20 PM


Re: The Kenyan grandmother's story
I presented a plausible hypothesis. Which is more than you have done. You've got as far as ruling out magic, which I appreciate must have been a big step for you. Now, how do you suppose Goderich arrived at THE SECRET TRUTH, nearly two decades before anyone else had an inkling of it?
Your incessant "funny" lie about me appealing to magic really ought to be smacked down by mods, but it won't be. Your hypothesis wasn't remotely plausible. There is no way a person could make such a mistake. She would have been working from documents about him provided from some source she considered reliable.
Surely the likely explanation is that his Kenyan birth was no secret back in those days, it was probably on various official documents. Probably a main reason all his school records are now kept from public view. His Kenyan birth was "deep sixed," as they say, when he became a nationally known political figure. So I assume there was no controversy when Kenya was given as his birthplace back when that bio was written.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-15-2016 5:20 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-15-2016 5:46 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 199 of 218 (795778)
12-15-2016 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Modulous
12-15-2016 5:01 PM


Re: Literary agent's "mistake"
Do you have reason to suppose she was worth her salt?
Yes, she's now a partner in the publishing company.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Modulous, posted 12-15-2016 5:01 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by Modulous, posted 12-15-2016 5:56 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 200 of 218 (795779)
12-15-2016 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by Modulous
12-15-2016 4:57 PM


Re: The Kenyan grandmother's story
But I also have to find the video of the grandmother I saw.
You posted it in Message 695.
FanTAStic. Thank you.
I just listened to the very end where the narrator at the beginning claims she affirmed Obama's birth in Mombasa. It's very hard to hear and I had to listen half a dozen times, but at 9:52 it sounds to me like she's saying "Mombasa," rather loudly too though the other sounds surrounding it on the tape interfere with it.
I'll still have to listen to the whole thing again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Modulous, posted 12-15-2016 4:57 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by Modulous, posted 12-15-2016 6:19 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 201 of 218 (795780)
12-15-2016 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Faith
12-15-2016 5:34 PM


Re: The Kenyan grandmother's story
Your incessant "funny" lie about me appealing to magic really ought to be smacked down by mods, but it won't be.
I said you'd ruled it out. If you like I will withdraw that statement.
There is no way a person could make such a mistake.
People have made much bigger mistakes than that, Faith. You've made bigger mistakes than that on a daily basis.
Surely the likely explanation is that his Kenyan birth was no secret back in those days ...
And yet no-one else mentioned it.
... it was probably on various official documents. Probably a main reason all his school records are now kept from public view.
So she went and looked at his school records, which are confidential, to find out where he was born? Rather than, say, relying on her unreliable memory, which you do all the time?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Faith, posted 12-15-2016 5:34 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by Faith, posted 12-15-2016 6:11 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 202 of 218 (795781)
12-15-2016 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by Faith
12-15-2016 5:36 PM


Re: Literary agent's "mistake"
Yes, she's now a partner in the publishing company.
So partners in publishing companies are 'worth their salt', meaning, according to you, incapable of making these kinds of errors? I don't see any reason to believe that. It is true that Barack Obama was born in Kenya, but it was The President of the United States' father. Is it really so hard to believe that competent people can make this mistake.
I have been misidentified as Polish and Japanese in a newspaper. One of the people doing that went on to become the head of the Sports reporting section of that newspaper. Is this evidence I am from Japan?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Faith, posted 12-15-2016 5:36 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 203 of 218 (795782)
12-15-2016 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by Dr Adequate
12-15-2016 5:46 PM


Re: The Kenyan grandmother's story
Oh stop the charade. You said it must have cost me to give up the idea of magic. But thank you for withdrawing it anyway.
People in her position don't make that kind of mistake. Here's an article on the subject that mentions how unlikely it is to make THAT KIND of mistake:
http://www.americanthinker.com/...o_fact_checking_error.html
Former publisher Tom Lipscomb does not buy Goderich's explanation for a New York minute. "As someone who has run a number of top bestseller publishers, I think this is an amazing MIRACLE," writes Lipscomb emphatically on Power Line. "It is the ONLY case I have ever heard of in which an editorial assistant INVENTED a biographical detail. I have heard of typos, wrong dates, misspellings of names. But to pick a really weird country of origin like Kenya for an author?"
Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/...g_error.html#ixzz4SwzM3Puf
So she went and looked at his school records, which are confidential, to find out where he was born?
You knock yourself out saying the most unlikely thing, don't you? Your main effort seems to be to obfuscate rather than illuminate.
Rather than, say, relying on her unreliable memory, which you do all the time?
Yes, I do, because it's too hard to keep looking things up in a debate with half a dozen people who wouldn't appreciate the effort anyway. But she wouldn't.
Besides, as that article says, the publishing company had about 90 clients at the time, and for a minor client like Obama she wouldn't have HAD any memory to rely on, she'd have to rely on documents supplied by somebody. Probably him, since that's standard, but we aren't allowed to say that are we? She herself is at GREAT pains to deny that he provided the information, as reported in that article. (so many things we aren't allowed to say these days.)
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-15-2016 5:46 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Modulous, posted 12-15-2016 6:30 PM Faith has replied
 Message 206 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-15-2016 6:36 PM Faith has replied
 Message 216 by NoNukes, posted 12-16-2016 6:02 PM Faith has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 204 of 218 (795783)
12-15-2016 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Faith
12-15-2016 5:42 PM


Re: The Kenyan grandmother's story
FanTAStic. Thank you.
t's very hard to hear and I had to listen half a dozen times, but at 9:52 it sounds to me like she's saying "Mombasa," rather loudly too though the other sounds surrounding it on the tape interfere with it.
Which, if true, would still be consistent with the mistranslation hypothesis - indeed it is predicted by it. For instance, take this possibility:
quote:
1: Where you here when Obama was born?
2: Mombassa?
1: He wants to know if you were here
2: Yes I was here.
*switching to English*
1: Yes she was present.
Until you start posting details about the Luo language that proves the ambiguous word 'present' was translated correctly and unambigously you've got nothing. As I said, the word 'present' can mean both 'here' and 'there' in English - and which one depends on subtleties you may not have even noticed, and is very easy to miss for someone whose English is poor. This is consistent with the actual conversation that followed:
quote:
MCRAE: OK I’m sorry. I, I thought she said she was present when he was born. I was
TRANSLATOR OGOMBE (sounding exasperated): No, no! The, the
woman was not present. She was uh not, a what--you see, she was here in Kenya, and Obama was born in America. That is, that’s obvious.
MCRAE: OK.
TRANSLATOR OGOMBE: Because, because the grandmother was married here in Kenya, and Obama was born in America, oh yeah, so his son, the little Obama, was marrying, was marrying, in America, in United States.
MCRAE: Oh, OK, fine. I mean, I--I just, I misunderstood what she was
saying. I thought you said she was present when he was born.
TRANSLATOR OGOMBE: No, not present there. The present with me here was tonight. Not present so she can leave. No she was here in Kenya while he, uh, her son, the little Obama, was marrying in America.
quote:
TRANSLATOR OGOMBE: --was in America there, why are they for, they go, they go, they go to some place,
then the present isn't here sir, he was born there in America
Again I ask you, is it so unlikely that a person who is not a good English speaker might get confused as to the meaning of 'present' and translate it with the meaning of 'here', meaning 'in Kenya'? Other languages aren't just word substitutions, as you know, and grammar and subtle points can be missed over poor telephone lines and just general misunderstanding.
It's not enough to mean anything, and the full conversation refutes it. The courts heard it, and they felt it was useless too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Faith, posted 12-15-2016 5:42 PM Faith has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 205 of 218 (795785)
12-15-2016 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by Faith
12-15-2016 6:11 PM


Re: The Kenyan grandmother's story
Former publisher Tom Lipscomb
Isn't that the guy that made the 'error' of publishing the 'fact' that he had been nominated for a Pullitzer prize even though he hadn't been? I don't think I'll take his word regarding errors.
keep looking things up in a debate with half a dozen people who wouldn't appreciate the effort anyway.
I'd appreciate it. And yes, researching and backing up your claims is hard. But if you don't, you'll be criticized. Publish your claims without double-checking that you aren't spreading misinformation and you will find yourself being called out on it. Your choice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Faith, posted 12-15-2016 6:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 12-15-2016 6:47 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 206 of 218 (795786)
12-15-2016 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by Faith
12-15-2016 6:11 PM


Re: The Kenyan grandmother's story
Oh stop the charade. You said it must have cost me to give up the idea of magic.
Well, as a creationist it is your go-to explanation for anything you don't understand.
Here's an article on the subject that mentions how unlikely it is to make THAT KIND of mistake:
So, Lipscomb really can't understand how Goderich "picked a really weird country of origin like Kenya", the country Obama's father came from, that one-third of his book is set in, and that is mentioned by name 104 times in the course of the book.
Then this is a conclusive argument that Lipscomb is a drooling moron.
Besides, as that article says, the publishing company had about 90 clients at the time, and for a minor client like Obama she wouldn't have HAD any memory to rely on, she'd have to rely on documents supplied by somebody. Probably him, since that's standard, but we aren't allowed to say that are we?
But Faith, as I have pointed out before, Obama is not a Birther. He has never been a Birther. But I like your argument that he was so minor and unimportant that no-one could make a careless mistake about any of his biographical details, it has that pleasant air of surreal craziness that one has learned to associate with you.
---
I recently had occasion to write a short biography of the minor Italian scientist Vitaliano Donati. He is far too unimportant for anyone to make a mistake about, and I have seen innumerable claims --- including those of his contemporaries --- that he died in a shipwreck, which is a sufficiently weird and singular way to die. So these accounts must be true and based on reliable documents, right?
Only they're complete bollocks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Faith, posted 12-15-2016 6:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by Faith, posted 12-15-2016 6:55 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 207 of 218 (795788)
12-15-2016 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Modulous
12-15-2016 6:30 PM


Re: The Kenyan grandmother's story
I get criticized for everything I do, right or wrong. My arguments on this subject are really really good. Doesn't stop the Choir of Criticizers. And I do check on most things anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Modulous, posted 12-15-2016 6:30 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 208 of 218 (795789)
12-15-2016 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by Dr Adequate
12-15-2016 6:36 PM


Re: The Kenyan grandmother's story
But Faith, as I have pointed out before, Obama is not a Birther. He has never been a Birther.
Except before he was in the public eye, when he could freely admit to having been born in Kenya.
But I like your argument that he was so minor and unimportant that no-one could make a careless mistake about any of his biographical details, it has that pleasant air of surreal craziness that one has learned to associate with you.
Speaking of surreal craziness, this is a fine specimen. What I said was she wouldn't have relied on her memory because she wouldn't have remembered him because he wasn't a major client of theirs, not that there is any reason to think that kind of information would be easily remembered in any case, but certainly not in this case. She needed someone to supply information about him. And again, the standard procedure is for the author to supply that information. And again, she adamantly denied that he supplied the information, which is so unlikely she had to have been lying, and she had to have been lying because by that time it was inconvenient to say he was born in Kenya.
A dead author is not expected to supply information about his life. Just in case you were wondering.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-15-2016 6:36 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by Modulous, posted 12-15-2016 7:02 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 210 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-15-2016 7:21 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 211 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-15-2016 7:46 PM Faith has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 209 of 218 (795790)
12-15-2016 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Faith
12-15-2016 6:55 PM


Re: The Kenyan grandmother's story
Except before he was in the public eye, when he could freely admit to having been born in Kenya.
Then how the hell did the New York Times make the mistake of saying he was born in the USA BEFORE the piece we are discussing was written? Where did he get that from?
Surely Fox Butterfield, who would become bureau chief in Saigon, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Beijing, and Boston is 'worth his salt'. How could he have somehow made the mistake that Obama (who was openly from Kenya at the time) was actually from America?
quote:
The new president of the Review is Barack Obama, a 28-year-old graduate of Columbia University who spent four years heading a community development program for poor blacks on Chicago's South Side before enrolling in law school. His late father, Barack Obama, was a finance minister in Kenya and his mother, Ann Dunham, is an American anthropologist now doing fieldwork in Indonesia. Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii.
Hey, maybe people just make mistakes sometimes, huh?
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Faith, posted 12-15-2016 6:55 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 210 of 218 (795791)
12-15-2016 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Faith
12-15-2016 6:55 PM


Re: The Kenyan grandmother's story
Except before he was in the public eye, when he could freely admit to having been born in Kenya.
In the first place, there is no record of him freely admitting anything of the kind, and secondly in your bizarre paranoid fantasy further up the thread you said there was a secret plot to make him President back when he was a student. This would have involved concealing his ineligiblity, not telling everyone about it.
---
Here are some examples of the sort of mistake no-one ever makes. Clearly in every case the original article was based off unimpeachable authentic official documents and the retraction was beaten out of some poor craven sub-editor by Obama's thugs.
---
Accuracy & Ethics - Chicago Tribune
Clarence Page's column of Aug. 17 incorrectly reported author J.D. Vance's birthplace as Jackson, Ky. In fact, he was born in Middletown, Ohio, but frequently lived with family in Jackson as he grew up. The Tribune regrets the error.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...ns-watson-lake-county
The headline above an article on the Oct. 1 front page about recently retired Florida National Guard Brig. Gen. Jimmy Watson misstated his birthplace. Watson, who was reared in Lake County, was born in Pensacola.
The Morning Call
Abraham Lincoln was born in Kentucky. His birthplace was incorrect in a Wednesday story about his birthday celebration at the Lehigh Valley Heritage Museum in Allentown.
Sun Sentinel
An article about Caribbean crime and development on Page 16A of Friday's edition misspelled the name of Boca Raton developer George Barbar and misstated his place of birth. He was born in Lebanon.
In obituaries March 30 and March 31 for singing cowboy Monte Hale, The Associated Press incorrectly named his birthplace.
In obituaries March 30 and March 31 for singing cowboy Monte Hale, The Associated Press incorrectly named his birthplace. Hale was born in San Angelo, Texas, not San Antonio, according to the Autry National Center of the American West.
Corrections - The New York Times
An obituary of the historian and presidential adviser Richard E. Neustadt on Nov. 3 and in some late copies on Nov. 2 misstated his birthplace and omitted his place of death. He was born in Philadelphia, not New York City, and he died at his English country home in the village of Furneux Pelham, in Hertfordshire. The article also misstated the name of the political party led by his wife in the House of Lords. It is the Liberal Democrats, not the Social Democratic Party.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Faith, posted 12-15-2016 6:55 PM Faith has not replied

  
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