Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 88 (8993 total)
62 online now:
PaulK (1 member, 61 visitors)
Newest Member: Juvenissun
Post Volume: Total: 879,114 Year: 10,862/23,288 Month: 114/1,763 Week: 81/390 Day: 2/32 Hour: 0/0

Announcements: Topic abandonment warning (read and/or suffer the consequences)


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Open-minded Skepticism
Coyote
Member (Idle past 684 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 47 of 85 (759375)
06-10-2015 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by mikechell
06-10-2015 8:03 PM


Facts and theories
Fact requires physical proof of existence. Fact requires observable cause and effect.

I disagree about the cause and effect--explaining facts is the role of hypotheses and theories.

From something I did a long time ago:

Observation: any information collected with the senses.

Data: Individual measurements; facts, figures, pieces of information, statistics, either historical or derived by calculation, experimentation, surveys, etc.; evidence from which conclusions can be inferred.

Fact: when an observation is confirmed repeatedly and by many independent and competent observers, it can become a fact.

And as explained by Heinlein many years ago,

Piling up facts is not science--science is facts-and-theories. Facts alone have limited use and lack meaning; a valid theory organizes them into far greater usefulness.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by mikechell, posted 06-10-2015 8:03 PM mikechell has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by MrHambre, posted 06-10-2015 10:13 PM Coyote has responded
 Message 50 by mikechell, posted 06-11-2015 12:45 AM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 684 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 49 of 85 (759389)
06-11-2015 12:39 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by MrHambre
06-10-2015 10:13 PM


Re: Facts and theories
Well and good.

I'm willing to keep an open mind, but not open to just any nonsense blowing in the wind.

That's where you get "airheads."


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by MrHambre, posted 06-10-2015 10:13 PM MrHambre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by MrHambre, posted 06-11-2015 6:53 AM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 684 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 55 of 85 (759424)
06-11-2015 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by mikechell
06-11-2015 6:42 AM


Re: Okay ... I'll give up.
You're right ... I was mistaken.
Facts mean nothing.
Observation is worthless.
Your beliefs win and nothing in the world is definite fact.

You seem to be deliberately misstating what I have said.

None of your response bears any relation to what was in my posts.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by mikechell, posted 06-11-2015 6:42 AM mikechell has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by mikechell, posted 06-11-2015 2:49 PM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020