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Author Topic:   Open-minded Skepticism
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7797
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 4 of 85 (755044)
04-03-2015 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
04-03-2015 10:07 AM


Well, yes, hardly original though, millions think and feel that way - what's new here?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 04-03-2015 10:07 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by RAZD, posted 04-04-2015 11:43 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7797
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 7 of 85 (755108)
04-04-2015 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by RAZD
04-04-2015 11:43 AM


Re: Glad you agree now
RAZD writes:

So now you agree the (C) is the position of choice when there is insufficient information to make an evidence informed decision

Get over yourself RAZ, trying to jemmy your little model into the discussion we were having missed the entire point. Remember, it was about beliefs, not facts or decisions? Beliefs are non-rational, as you demonstrate yourself by claiming to believe in god (Deist) whilst being agnostic! Bonkers man.

There's a whole world of the non-rational out there - love, hate, happiness, desire, beliefs, misery, hope, despair, longing,... These are governed by personality traits, hormones, upbringing, drugs, time-of-life, disposition, class, morality etc etc. Stick them in your little boxes and its gigo all the way down.

You're using the wrong tools for the wrong job. That's not rational, Captain.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by RAZD, posted 04-04-2015 11:43 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by RAZD, posted 04-05-2015 11:23 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7797
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 12 of 85 (755172)
04-05-2015 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by RAZD
04-05-2015 11:23 AM


Re: Glad you agree now: open-minded skepticism = (C)
RAZD writes:

Just because you still don't get it doesn't make it bonkers, it just makes your view limited and narrow-minded. You focused on your definitions as a shield and missed the wider application\discussion. That is why I introduced\tried a different way of looking at the issue ... which you just rejected.

Of course I 'got' what you were saying - it was hardly original. Just like now, you see a post about open-minded skepticism and immediately think that its special - only you, the writer and a few like minded individuals 'get it'. And yet, it seems obvious to others here that this is just, well, normal. Similarly only you 'get' confirmation bias and particular logical fallacies. Really? When you're on the subject of 'hard science' like radio carbon dating you're brilliant - when it comes to human beliefs and behaviours, you're lost. You're as puzzled as Spock, watching a human kiss.

Its time you turned this very special mind of yours in on yourself and really open it up.

So, again, in terms of the topic, of being (or not being) an open-minded skeptic, you do agree that position (C) is the logical end position when there is insufficient information to make an evidence informed decision, and that the answer is "I don't know" ... unless of course you insist on making a choice based on your (choose to be closed minded) opinion.

No. I reject the entire proposition that the human mind is open to such a reductionist approach. Rationalism and the scientific method has proved to be a fantastic mechanism for understanding simple realities such as the age of rock, how organisms change over time, how to confirm a medical process is efficacious or harmful, but so far it can't begin to tell me why I love the smell of wild garlic. (Don't try to google that for a generic link - it too can't make the associations.)

By ignoring the human condition and how people actually work in real life, you are failing to be open minded and sceptical and missing an enormously important part of life - the irrational. And in doing so, you are fooling yourself and are the perfect example of how not to be open minded and sceptical.

You believe in God without evidence! And, yes, I do understand why you say that, but do you? Really? But that's irrational isn't it?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by RAZD, posted 04-05-2015 11:23 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by RAZD, posted 04-05-2015 6:16 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7797
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 14 of 85 (755188)
04-06-2015 4:38 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by RAZD
04-05-2015 6:16 PM


Re: Glad you agree now: open-minded skepticism = (C)
RAZD writes:

no, you did not \ do not get it. You see only half the answer because that fits your categories of how things work.

You find it impossible that someone could fully understand your childisly simple little model and still disagree with you don't you? For some hubristic reason, you've decided that only you and a rare few others - evidenced by your amazement in finding the article you've posted - are capable of sceptical thinking and therefor whatever you've decided to be 'correct' IS correct. Have you considered, in an open-minded, sceptical way, that your model might not be inclusive? That it might not apply in certain circumstances? That in fact it is completly unable to cope with the irrational, which is a very real and necessary part of human behaviour?

So, again, in terms of the topic, of being (or not being) an open-minded skeptic, you do agree that position (C) is the logical end position when there is insufficient information to make an evidence informed decision, and that the answer is "I don't know" ... unless of course you insist on making a choice based on your (choose to be closed minded) opinion.

You seem unable to understand - perhaps because you don't like to admit it to yourself - that when people do not have all the information to make a decision, they make a decision anyway. Not only that, they have autonomous mechanisms that have allowed them to not have to make decisions about some very important things. Like fall in love, feel happy, punch someone in the face. And believe in Gods. Which you claim to do - without evidence and without the need for a decision.

You can rage against that fact as much as you like, but you have still made an irrational decision. I don't have a problem with that, I think you're wrong but I have made a similar irrational step to say that god does not exist. That's the great human perogative - to behave irrationally - sometimes for rational reasons.

Your mind is closed to the idea that the reductive, rational approach that works so well with objective realities like our physical enviroment might not so simplistically be similarly applied to the human mind and human behaviour.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by RAZD, posted 04-05-2015 6:16 PM RAZD has not yet responded

  
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