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Author | Topic: You Will Always Have the Poor | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5
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Whether the things reported are true or not doesn't take away our power to discuss the way the scenes fit into the overall narrative and accompanying belief system.
Sure. And I have been doing that. But, in doing that, I follow the principle of charity. We should read it as though people are making sense. And what seems to make sense is that Jesus was just saying that we can postpone the problem of the poor until later, so that we can treat this generous woman as she deserves. Given everything else that he said, it does not make sense (so is contrary to the principle of charity), to interpret Jesus as saying "fuck the poor."Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
And if you do a Google search for this phrase, you will find countless websites attempting to explain this scene to a population of Christians hellbent on excusing themselves from the daunting responsibility of being Christians. That's horrible slander. Prove it. Christians give more money to help the poor and suffering than any other group by far, and put themselves personally on the line to give help as well. You might be interested in this: http://www.worldmag.com/...kristof_s_defense_of_evangelicals
On Sunday, New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof observed a cemented bias against evangelical Christians among his erudite colleagues:
Today, among urban Americans and Europeans, ‘evangelical Christian’ is sometimes a synonym for ‘rube.’ In liberal circles, evangelicals constitute one of the few groups that it’s safe to mock openly. Kristof’s argument is not ideological. He is driven by the most practical motivation: He has seen sincere evangelical Christians around the world sacrificing their personal health, well-being, and livelihood to feed the poor and care for the sick. He has seen evangelicals running into war zones and humanitarian criseseven as other aid workers were escaping: Yet the liberal caricature of evangelicals is incomplete and unfair. I have little in common, politically or theologically, with evangelicals. But I’ve been truly awed by those I’ve seen in so many remote places, combating illiteracy and warlords, famine and disease, humbly struggling to do the Lord’s work as they see it, and it is offensive to see good people derided.
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Jon Inactive Member |
The disciples said "What about the poor?" and Jesus replied, "don't worry about them now, this is important too". What do you suppose Matthew's purpose was in removing Mark's "you can show kindness to them whenever you wish" line?Love your enemies!
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
What exactly do you think topped his list? The very top priority for Jesus was how we treated each other, and our relationship to God. Not necessarily in that order. Treatment of the poor, and the imprisoned and the downtroden was one aspect of that. Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
What do you suppose Matthew's purpose was in removing Mark's "you can show kindness to them whenever you wish" line? To make it more about Jesus and less about the poor. Jesus was pointing out that He wasn't going to be around for very long, so if they wanted to adore Him then they'd need to do it now. But the poor weren't going anywhere so, they could still help them after Jesus had left. Its like when you're putting something off, and you go: "Meh, I can always do that later". Its not so much that you can always do that later as it its that in practically all ways, you have the ability to get it done later.
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Jon Inactive Member |
And if you do a Google search for this phrase, you will find countless websites attempting to explain this scene to a population of Christians hellbent on excusing themselves from the daunting responsibility of being Christians. That's horrible slander. Prove it. Did you bother doing the Google search, Faith?
"The Poor You Will Always Have:" It's Not A Prediction! That's one; I'll leave you to find the others on your own.
You might be interested in this: I'm not.Love your enemies!
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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What do you suppose Matthew's purpose was in removing Mark's "you can show kindness to them whenever you wish" line? My theory is that there was no purpose. Each person told his version of the story, and it is not as though Jesus had a stenographer following him everywhere. I suspect that absent some belief that there was something nefarious about the missing line, the comment did not make any particular impression on Matthew.Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yeah I found somebody accusing Christians of having that attitude, I did not see any evidence that they do.
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Jon Inactive Member |
To make it more about Jesus and less about the poor. But the author has no real reason to do that; by the time he begins writing Jesus has been long dead. The only way Matthew's audience could make it more about Jesus and less about the poor would be to spend more time and/or money on their secretive worshiping and less on alleviating poverty. By removing the reminder that the poor will still need to be helped, Matthew makes Jesus' charge to focus on him over the poor for that one night an eternal commandment. Sounds like a good excuse for getting new seats in the church while the folks on the street sleep in boxes. Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
Did you miss the link to the Washington Post article on Rick Perry?
Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
From where do you think Matthew sourced this particular scene?
Love your enemies!
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Jon writes: That's one; I'll leave you to find the others on your own. From the site.
quote: In fact, the Catholic Church is urging that we not interpret Jesus words in exactly the way that you are doing in the OP. Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I read the article. He's saying it's not really a big problem, that jobs are available. You misread it. Why are you so intent on accusing Christians of failure to help the poor when in fact they've always been known for the opposite?.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
To make it more about Jesus and less about the poor.
But the author has no real reason to do that; by the time he begins writing Jesus has been long dead. I meant: To make what Jesus was talking about to be more clear as being more about the part about anointing Jesus that being about dismissing the poor.
The only way Matthew's audience could make it more about Jesus and less about the poor would be to spend more time and/or money on their secretive worshiping and less on alleviating poverty. Jesus wasn't saying to not help the poor, He was saying that it was a good thing that she was anointing Him, and that you don't have to stop doing all other good things in order to help the poor at all times, especially when time is of the essence. The poor aren't going anywhere, they'll be there and you can help them, but Jesus was going somewhere, so it made sense to help Him right then.
By removing the reminder that the poor will still need to be helped, Matthew makes Jesus' charge to focus on him over the poor for that one night an eternal commandment. How does it make it an eternal commandment?
Sounds like a good excuse for getting new seats in the church while the folks on the street sleep in boxes. Sounds to me like you're trying to make it that way.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
From where do you think Matthew sourced this particular scene? Clearly there are shared sources between the Gospels of Mark and Matthew. One thing that is clear is that the Gospel of Matthew describes different aspects of Jesus from Mark even when they describe the exact same event. But absent Jesus passing out copies of his speech, it is not difficult to imagine multiple accounts of what Jesus said where different statements are remembered as the most important. Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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