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Author Topic:   Stephen Jay Gould: The Hedgehog, the Fox, and the Magister’s Pox
ringo
Member
Posts: 19262
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 16 of 92 (759601)
06-13-2015 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Faith
06-13-2015 10:53 AM


Re: Science, Humanism and Spirituality
Faith writes:

... I resented scientific reductionism with its unbelievable arrogance in reducing us and our amazing abilities and our complicated history to the lowest materialist ponderings of the ********* / stooppidest scientist out there.


It's funny how you equate humility about our "amazing abilities" to arrogance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 06-13-2015 10:53 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Faith, posted 06-14-2015 8:06 PM ringo has responded
 Message 79 by ramoss, posted 06-16-2015 6:39 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19262
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 32 of 92 (759706)
06-14-2015 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by MrHambre
06-14-2015 9:21 AM


MrHambre writes:

Still Better Than Religion! is a great slogan for people who prefer machine fantasies to religious ones. But those of us who consider ourselves humanists wonder how much difference there really is between the two.


I consider myself a humanist because there's no alternative. I wouldn't have any problem believing in religion if it was in any way plausible.

MrHambre writes:

A lot of the messages we get from the science industry are depressingly anti-humanistic.


My copy must have been lost in the email. Do you have any examples?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by MrHambre, posted 06-14-2015 9:21 AM MrHambre has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19262
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 34 of 92 (759710)
06-14-2015 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by MrHambre
06-14-2015 3:43 PM


MrHambre writes:

Well, how about Dawkins telling us we're nothing but machines built by our genes to propagate themselves? How about Krauss telling us that we're "cosmically insignificant"? I don't consider either of these messages very humanistic, but maybe you've got a different take on it than I do.


I think humility is an important part of humanism. As I've said before in other topics, humanism doesn't mean that we can solve all of our own problems, only that we have a responsibility to try.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by MrHambre, posted 06-14-2015 3:43 PM MrHambre has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19262
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 57 of 92 (759806)
06-15-2015 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Faith
06-14-2015 8:06 PM


Re: Science, Humanism and Spirituality
Faith writes:

There's no humility in reducing Shakespeare or Plato or Confucius or the Bible to their atomic constituents, that IS arrogance, and a recipe for mindless demoralization.


It isn't "reducing" at all. It's recognizing what WE as humans have accomplished. It's elevating the Bible from a mere newspaper, as you would have it, to literature that's as valuable as Plato or Confucius. This is what WE can do; it's not just a memo from some alien overlord.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Faith, posted 06-14-2015 8:06 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19262
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 70 of 92 (759966)
06-16-2015 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Faith
06-15-2015 7:32 PM


Faith writes:

I say Beethoven makes a noise whether anyone can appreciate it or not. Objective reality.


The distinctions between "noise", "sound" and "music" are highly subjective. Only the vibrations in the air are objective.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Faith, posted 06-15-2015 7:32 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19262
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 74 of 92 (759981)
06-16-2015 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by MrHambre
06-16-2015 12:20 PM


MrHambre writes:

When I say "dehumanizing," I mean degrading and trivializing human experience with machine fantasies that objectify us.


I like to quote Joni Mitchell:
quote:
We are stardust
We are golden

Stardust isn't such a bad object.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by MrHambre, posted 06-16-2015 12:20 PM MrHambre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by MrHambre, posted 06-16-2015 2:27 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
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