Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,808 Year: 3,065/9,624 Month: 910/1,588 Week: 93/223 Day: 4/17 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Do you think that torturing a baby is ever justified?
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 1 of 45 (760314)
06-19-2015 10:30 AM


Do you think that torturing a baby is ever justified?
Have you seen this rather well done movie?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI
They end asking about a God who tortures babies as God did to King David’s baby.
God also killed many innocent babies in his great flood as well as the innocent first born of Egypt.
Dwindling In Unbelief: God slowly killed David's baby boy to punish David for adultery
Do you think that torturing a baby is ever justified?
Regards
DL

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 06-20-2015 11:41 AM Greatest I am has not replied
 Message 4 by nwr, posted 06-20-2015 11:51 AM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 5 by ringo, posted 06-20-2015 1:22 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 6 by MrHambre, posted 06-20-2015 8:34 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 33 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-29-2015 3:55 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12995
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 2 of 45 (760316)
06-20-2015 7:57 AM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Do you think that torturing a baby is ever justified? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3 of 45 (760334)
06-20-2015 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
06-19-2015 10:30 AM


Is There An Exception To Every Rule?
Have you seen this rather well done movie?
Yes i saw it once before a few months ago...perhaps in a different context...I'll watch it again however for the sake of this conversation. Right now im going to breakfast, however.

God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 06-19-2015 10:30 AM Greatest I am has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(4)
Message 4 of 45 (760336)
06-20-2015 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
06-19-2015 10:30 AM


Do you think it is ever justified to start a discussion on whether baby torture is justified?

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 06-19-2015 10:30 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Greatest I am, posted 06-26-2015 7:11 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 5 of 45 (760343)
06-20-2015 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
06-19-2015 10:30 AM


Greatest I am writes:
They end asking about a God who tortures babies as God did to King David’s baby.
Just to be clear, "torture" is your own inflammatory fabrication that doesn't fit the story.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 06-19-2015 10:30 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Straggler, posted 06-22-2015 12:57 PM ringo has replied
 Message 12 by Greatest I am, posted 06-26-2015 7:12 PM ringo has replied

  
MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1392 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


(3)
Message 6 of 45 (760371)
06-20-2015 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
06-19-2015 10:30 AM


God on Trial
Have you seen this rather well done movie?
I saw God on Trial when it was originally shown on PBS and thought it was extremely well done. I'm nonreligious, and I couldn't care less about the God-is-God-ain't debate. But the movie was like a Viktor Frankl adaptation of Sartre's The Wall, where devout Jews on the brink of annihilation in a Nazi death camp discuss how their fate affects the way they define The Big G. It was a very honest look at what faith ---the mystery of Being--- means to people confronting evil and nothingness.
That's what made the cop-out ending all the more disappointing: decades after the war, one of the survivors is touring the camp with his granddaughter. When she hears about the last prayer the inmates prayed to a God they only grudgingly worshipped, she asked the survivor if he thought the prayer had been answered. He gleefully responded, "We're still here, aren't we?" This facile epilogue betrayed the sincerity of the body of the film, which addressed the uncertainty and ambiguity of the tragedy instead of handwaving it away.
Oh, but you're just exploiting suffering as rhetorical ammo for your latest garbled rant? How unexpected.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 06-19-2015 10:30 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Greatest I am, posted 06-26-2015 7:17 PM MrHambre has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 7 of 45 (760457)
06-22-2015 10:12 AM


as usual, just more misrepresentation from Greatest I Am
GIA talks about God torturing King David's son but what exactly happens in the story.
Here it is in context:
2 Samuel 12 writes:
12 And the Lord sent Nathan unto David. And he came unto him, and said unto him, There were two men in one city; the one rich, and the other poor.
2 The rich man had exceeding many flocks and herds:
3 But the poor man had nothing, save one little ewe lamb, which he had bought and nourished up: and it grew up together with him, and with his children; it did eat of his own meat, and drank of his own cup, and lay in his bosom, and was unto him as a daughter.
4 And there came a traveller unto the rich man, and he spared to take of his own flock and of his own herd, to dress for the wayfaring man that was come unto him; but took the poor man's lamb, and dressed it for the man that was come to him.
5 And David's anger was greatly kindled against the man; and he said to Nathan, As the Lord liveth, the man that hath done this thing shall surely die:
6 And he shall restore the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing, and because he had no pity.
7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;
8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.
9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the Lord, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.
10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.
11 Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.
12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.
13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the Lord. And Nathan said unto David, The Lord also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.
14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
15 And Nathan departed unto his house. And the Lord struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.
16 David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in, and lay all night upon the earth.
17 And the elders of his house arose, and went to him, to raise him up from the earth: but he would not, neither did he eat bread with them.
18 And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died. And the servants of David feared to tell him that the child was dead: for they said, Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spake unto him, and he would not hearken unto our voice: how will he then vex himself, if we tell him that the child is dead?
19 But when David saw that his servants whispered, David perceived that the child was dead: therefore David said unto his servants, Is the child dead? And they said, He is dead.
20 Then David arose from the earth, and washed, and anointed himself, and changed his apparel, and came into the house of the Lord, and worshipped: then he came to his own house; and when he required, they set bread before him, and he did eat.
21 Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.
22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether God will be gracious to me, that the child may live?
23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him.
25 And he sent by the hand of Nathan the prophet; and he called his name Jedidiah, because of the Lord.
26 And Joab fought against Rabbah of the children of Ammon, and took the royal city.
27 And Joab sent messengers to David, and said, I have fought against Rabbah, and have taken the city of waters.
28 Now therefore gather the rest of the people together, and encamp against the city, and take it: lest I take the city, and it be called after my name.
29 And David gathered all the people together, and went to Rabbah, and fought against it, and took it.
30 And he took their king's crown from off his head, the weight whereof was a talent of gold with the precious stones: and it was set on David's head. And he brought forth the spoil of the city in great abundance.
31 And he brought forth the people that were therein, and put them under saws, and under harrows of iron, and under axes of iron, and made them pass through the brick-kiln: and thus did he unto all the cities of the children of Ammon. So David and all the people returned unto Jerusalem.
In the story the prophet Nathan says that David's first child will die as a result of David's behavior. There is no mention of any torture and only the on the seventh day the child died.
It is import here to understand the time, period and culture. Infant mortality was a fact of life and the reason children were not even named until they had lived a full week. That is why Jesus was actually named and circumcised on the eighth day as described in Luke 2.
Luke 2:21 writes:
21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
So once again GIA is just making shit up and showing his ignorance but fortunately, ignorance can be cured.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Greatest I am, posted 06-26-2015 7:08 PM jar has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 8 of 45 (760482)
06-22-2015 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by ringo
06-20-2015 1:22 PM


If water boarding qualifies as torture then imposing a worldwide flood that subjects kids to the same sort of experience (with death as the end result) - Could conceivably be considered torture.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by ringo, posted 06-20-2015 1:22 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by ringo, posted 06-22-2015 1:02 PM Straggler has not replied
 Message 14 by Greatest I am, posted 06-26-2015 7:21 PM Straggler has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 9 of 45 (760484)
06-22-2015 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Straggler
06-22-2015 12:57 PM


Straggler writes:
If water boarding qualifies as torture then imposing a worldwide flood that subjects kids to the same sort of experience (with death as the end result) - Could conceivably be considered torture.
I was only responding to the example that Greatest I am gave. Maybe he should have used yours.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Straggler, posted 06-22-2015 12:57 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 10 of 45 (760966)
06-26-2015 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by jar
06-22-2015 10:12 AM


Re: as usual, just more misrepresentation from Greatest I Am
jar
15 And Nathan departed unto his house. And the Lord struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.
Is making a baby sick for 6 days before finally killing it not torture?
"So once again GIA is just making shit up and showing his ignorance but fortunately, ignorance can be cured."
Thanks for making shit up. I hope you find the cure.
Regards
DL
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by jar, posted 06-22-2015 10:12 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by jar, posted 06-26-2015 7:44 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 16 by NoNukes, posted 06-27-2015 2:08 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 11 of 45 (760968)
06-26-2015 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by nwr
06-20-2015 11:51 AM


nwr
Absolutely when it is a God who is loved does it and his followers continue to love such a prick.
If I ask the question, they might see what kind of vile demiurge they follow.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by nwr, posted 06-20-2015 11:51 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 12 of 45 (760969)
06-26-2015 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by ringo
06-20-2015 1:22 PM


ringo
Then you do not know the story.
Regardless. It is just one of a number of instances where God punishes the innocent instead of the guilty.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by ringo, posted 06-20-2015 1:22 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by ringo, posted 06-27-2015 11:41 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 13 of 45 (760970)
06-26-2015 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by MrHambre
06-20-2015 8:34 PM


Re: God on Trial
MrHambre
Unexpected? Just because you do not know me well enough yet.
I do not miss any opportunity to call a prick a prick. God being the prick just says that I thought about it before posting to confirm that he is a prick.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by MrHambre, posted 06-20-2015 8:34 PM MrHambre has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 14 of 45 (760971)
06-26-2015 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Straggler
06-22-2015 12:57 PM


Straggler
I agree.
Death might be fairly fast from drowning but those would seem like a very long few minutes to the drowning.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Straggler, posted 06-22-2015 12:57 PM Straggler has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 15 of 45 (760973)
06-26-2015 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Greatest I am
06-26-2015 7:08 PM


Re: as usual, just more misrepresentation from Greatest I Am
No, it is not torture.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Greatest I am, posted 06-26-2015 7:08 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Greatest I am, posted 06-27-2015 7:35 PM jar has replied
 Message 39 by Greatest I am, posted 07-02-2015 2:07 PM jar has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024