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Author Topic:   White Privilege
ringo
Member
Posts: 19540
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 271 of 276 (779613)
03-06-2016 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by Jon
03-05-2016 12:35 PM


Re: the history and mathematics of prejudice
Jon writes:

Almost nothing anyone knows did they know from birth.


On the contrary, the specific example we're discussing - nursery rhymes - is something we certainly do learn from birth. For myself, another example is the Bible; I literally knew Bible verses from memory before I could read. They're still with me sixty years later even though I haven't been to church in thirty years. Asking Hindu children about the Sermon on the Mount would not be a valid test of their intelligence.

Jon writes:

No school could get away with restricting itself to only testing those things its pupils should have known from birth.


Nobody has suggested any such thing. What I've said is that things you learned from birth should not be used as a measure of your intelligence - i.e. as a measure of what you can learn.

Jon writes:

The tests weren't in a language the children didn't speak.


The tests used a vocabulary that the children didn't know. Big Bad Wolf? Chinny chin chin? It might as well have been Arabic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Jon, posted 03-05-2016 12:35 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by Jon, posted 03-06-2016 8:54 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19540
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 272 of 276 (779618)
03-06-2016 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by vimesey
03-05-2016 2:42 PM


Re: the history and mathematics of prejudice
vimesey writes:

... I would have no idea about the significance of six white boomers.


Tie me kangaroo down, sport.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by vimesey, posted 03-05-2016 2:42 PM vimesey has taken no action

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 1938 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


(1)
Message 273 of 276 (779656)
03-06-2016 8:11 PM


Jon writes:

It's nothing but cherry-picked numbers judged against irrelevant scales (percentage of U.S. population? WTF? Do you realize that only matters if we think police should be going around shooting people at random and for no cause?)

Message 222

Jon writes:

Really it's just a test. Anyone can do well or poor on it regardless the color of their skin.

Message 222

Jon writes:

And there is nothing preventing British Asians from learning nursery rhymes.

Message 228

Jon writes:

Despite it's name, AAVE is not unique to African Americans nor do all African Americans speak it.

Message 236

Jon writes:

And that these questions aren't 'unfair' because all test questions test people on things they had to be taught at some point.

Message 263

The preceding was a list of comments people don't usually make when they understand the concept of a bell curve. When trying to discuss large groups of people, working with population averages is really the only valid approach one can take.

Jon writes:

And there is a lot of useless crap in academia.

Message 259

This, on the other hand, is one of the truest things that has ever been spoken by a person who grew up speaking English and singing "The Little Old Lady Who Swallowed a Fly."


-Blue Jay, Ph.D.*

*Yeah, it's real

Darwin loves you.


  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 274 of 276 (779657)
03-06-2016 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by ringo
03-06-2016 1:15 PM


Re: the history and mathematics of prejudice
... things you learned from birth should not be used as a measure of your intelligence - i.e. as a measure of what you can learn.

That's just as ridiculous.

Jon writes:

The tests weren't in a language the children didn't speak.


The tests used a vocabulary that the children didn't know. Big Bad Wolf? Chinny chin chin? It might as well have been Arabic.

Did you read vimesey's explanation of the test?


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by ringo, posted 03-06-2016 1:15 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by ringo, posted 03-07-2016 11:01 AM Jon has taken no action

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1309
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 275 of 276 (779689)
03-07-2016 5:49 AM
Reply to: Message 269 by Jon
03-05-2016 10:31 PM


Re: the history and mathematics of prejudice
Testing cultural knowledge is a perfectly valid thing to do.

I agree - but I believe we should do so in a way which is fair to all of the children being tested.

In the example I gave, it was not fair to ask the children of Asian ethnic origin about Anglo Saxon nursery rhymes - they weren't sung to them by their parents and aren't on any school's required curriculum. It is not fair they be expected to know them.

Similarly, in the studies cited of SAT'S, unfair weighting has been identified, which is to the disadvantage of children from a particular ethnic background.

By all means, test culture. Teach it, learn it, embrace it. But if we are testing it in a way which is unfair to an ethnic grouping, then we aren't doing it well.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Jon, posted 03-05-2016 10:31 PM Jon has taken no action

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19540
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 276 of 276 (779712)
03-07-2016 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 274 by Jon
03-06-2016 8:54 PM


Re: the history and mathematics of prejudice
Jon writes:

That's just as ridiculous.


Again - explain why you disagree.

Jon writes:

Did you read vimesey's explanation of the test?


I read where he said, "A child of Asian ethnic origin stood no chance, because Asian origin parents don't generally read their kids traditional white British nursery rhymes," in Message 261, which is exactly what I've been saying. Maybe you can explain why it's ridiculous when I say it, yet you try to use it as an argument against me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by Jon, posted 03-06-2016 8:54 PM Jon has taken no action

  
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