Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up?

So Ms. Davis is free. According to her attorney, "We are back to square one." There seems little doubt she will interfere with licenses being issued to gays by her assistant clerks unless the state meets her demand that her name and office be removed from the license.

I think the judge took the right course: she's clearly thrilled with her martyrdom, and needed a bit more rope. BTW, it would be nice to see Shuckabee in jail, but I have to admire the chutzpah of his offer to go in her place.

I'm still puzzled by the intersection of her marital history, conversion and present course. She clearly issued marriage licenses to previously divorced people, even though that also contravenes what she sees as God's law. I wonder why.

Even in the earliest examples of Christian martyrdom, they go out of their way to create the situation.

... not quite sure why you say that.

Omni writes: I wonder why.

On the CBC news last night somebody commented that quitting the $100,000 job might have been a more sincere protest.

ringo writes: On the CBC news last night somebody commented that quitting the $100,000 job might have been a more sincere protest.

Well, she probably tithes. In the grand prosperity church tradition, that return-on-investment salary went to her mother previously, now her, and, yea, even unto her son's generation, because her tithes are returned to her many-fold.

We can take her $100K when we pry it from her righteous hands.

...but I have to admire the chutzpah of his offer to go in her place.

I consider it to be empty rhetoric.

I occasionally tell my wife that I would have gladly born half of her labor pains if such a thing were allowed. The Mrs. has always considered my offers to be completely empty. It is obvious that there is no way I could be taken up on them.

Under what circumstance would Huckabee ever be allowed to take another person's place in the slammer? Exactly none.

But if you look very closely at the background of that picture, there are lions.

Under what circumstance would Huckabee ever be allowed to take another person's place in the slammer? Exactly none.

He soooooo wants to be a martyr, but without any real pain. Remember, this is a guy who tells the story about how he had to use Lava Soap when he was a kid. Life was really tough for him.

NoNukes writes: I consider it to be empty rhetoric.

Exactly.

If it were possible, then it would be, if less courageous than Machiavellian, at least authentic. Since it isn't possible, it's pure chutzpah.

But Huckabee isn't targeting high-information voters. So it may be empty rhetoric and still be effective.

The ultra-right wing crazies of the Oath Keepers is sending its boys, armed for action, to Kentucky to keep US Marshalls from taking Kim Davis back into custody if she violates the terms of her release and interferes with her staff's issue of marriage licenses.

They have warned the local sheriff that if he will not stop the US Marshalls then they will.

It is their intention to defy the court even if it means innocent people die. These guys are bound and determined to kill somebody.

Oath Keepers

Miz Davis is so eager for her martyrdom, if the judge orders her jailed, the Oath Keepers would have to shoot her to keep her out.

From what I've seen of them, they might.

DWise1 writes: Even in the earliest examples of Christian martyrdom, they go out of their way to create the situation. ... not quite sure why you say that.

I was thinking of one pre-Constantine case presented in a very rare event, an actual history program on one of the history channels. It was about the early pre-Constantine Christian churches.

I think that this martyr is one of the more famous ones. She was a young woman, pregnant. She might even have been patrician. She refused to make a sacrifice to the Emperor, which was more a form of taxation than anything else, as I understand. You paid for the sacrifice to be made and got a receipt as proof that you paid it. It was part of your civic duty. Well, she refused to pay it, so she was arrested. Family members and friends came to visit her, practically every one of whom offered to pay it for her, but she refused to allow them to. I seem to recall that the officials didn't even want to arrest her in the first place, were willing to let it slide, but she insisted that they arrest her. One opportunity after another was offered to her to have her life spared, but she refused each and every one of them. And despite everybody's efforts, she finally got her wish.

I don't doubt that many of the early Christian martyrs did not wish for their fates, but there were also those who did go out of their way to achieve martyrdom. And we still see that mania for martyrdom today. And it's so strong that they still go out of their way to make it happen.

Hebrews 11:35:

Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

Faith writes: Hebrews 11:35: Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

To put that in context, it's about the faith of the Hebrews - crossing the Red Sea, conquering Jericho, etc. - not Christians.

You're as bad as jar when it comes to making up your own theology. You know nothing. Why was the faith of those Hebrews included in the New Testament? Because they ARE "Christians," that is, we include them as believers in the same God, even in the sense that they looked forward to the true Messiah despite their disadvantage of time.

Faith writes: You're as bad as jar when it comes to making up your own theology.

I didn't say a word about theology. I was just pointing out the context of your quote for people who don't want to look it up for themselves.

Faith writes: Why was the faith of those Hebrews included in the New Testament? Because they ARE "Christians," that is, we include them as believers in the same God, even in the sense that they looked forward to the true Messiah despite their disadvantage of time.

THAT is what YOU are making up.

What Jesus SAID was that the ancient Hebrews had faith in God and their contemporaries should too - because God was, and is, faithful. He said nothing about Christian martyrs.