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Author Topic:   Self-Driving Cars
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13193
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 25 of 142 (767702)
09-01-2015 2:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
08-30-2015 9:32 AM


Driving Miss. Daisy
It all boils down to how the humans respond to the legal language differentiating the technological responsibility versus human responsibility.

If the car malfunctions and causes harm, it is the owners liability---thus if the car hurts the owner, the owner gets the blame.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 08-30-2015 9:32 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13193
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 104 of 142 (830428)
03-29-2018 9:02 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by jar
03-27-2018 6:59 AM


Re: Uber’s no good very bad week
jar writes:

quote:
The car, a white Toyota Camry, got stuck at about 1:23 p.m. local time, according to the San Francisco Police Department. The car was being driven by a human at the time of the accident, according to an employee at Safeway.

And the picture shows a car without the additional pods seen on the uber self-driving cars so it is very likely that it was just a normal car.

It appears that this driver, though very human, was relying far too much on GPS technology rather than simply driving slow and observing the area. My point is that there are accidents caused solely by human error, accidents caused solely by driverless technology, and accidents caused by an ill-conceived synthesis between the two.

Perhaps a valid question which we need to ask ourselves is this:
As technology and computer systems advance, which tasks should we entrust to the robotic computers and which should we keep for ourselves in the interest of retaining mental sharpness?

My sister relies on her smartphone GPS device to guide her to locations that she is unfamiliar with on the city map, whereas I enjoy the challenge of writing down the directions and following the markers to the location myself. Her device actually audibly speaks out instructions to her on which direction to turn whereas I make those decisions on my own, based on my familiarity with the spatial layout of the city itself.

Of course, were I in a strange city, I might rely on the GPS voice more than I do here, but I still like to feel as if I am choosing the directions versus having them spoken at me by that annoying Siri.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by jar, posted 03-27-2018 6:59 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by jar, posted 03-29-2018 9:15 AM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 106 by Percy, posted 03-29-2018 10:05 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13193
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 107 of 142 (830439)
03-29-2018 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by jar
03-29-2018 9:15 AM


Re: Uber’s no good very bad week
Perhaps they could someday have a lane on major highways dedicated solely to driverless vehicles.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by jar, posted 03-29-2018 9:15 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by jar, posted 03-29-2018 10:57 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13193
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 114 of 142 (845103)
12-12-2018 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Percy
05-10-2018 9:55 AM


Part Of The Problem
I took a minute to read your last two latest posts. I didnt know that you had a semi-automatic car...I guess that those are common these days. Your estimation of the technology being 20-30 years off sounds quite logical--and you being from the field of study that you were in makes you well equipped to analyse these news stories and provide reasonable critique. Here is my 2 cents:

Many of the younger Millennials who are in the industry that designs and builds this technology are, in my opinion, far removed from the nuts and bolts technology of an actual car, not to mention the early technology involved in computer design. They have grown up around virtual reality gaming and how computers work in that environment, yet are not as aware of the real world limitations of such technology. Driver reaction time is one primary example. In an RPG game, the "driver" is the player and is totally immersed in the game. In the example of a self-driving car, there seems to be a fantasy of...as you say...watching videos and texting on your phone while the car gets you across town. The problem is, among other things, the real world of the town that must be navigated is not designed and built within the confines of the "game". One may well build a SIMS car for their SIMS characters in a game, having built and designed the game from the floor up. One cannot as easily integrate the dynamic demands of an onboard computer to navigate around any city. Do you understand what I'm attempting to say?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Percy, posted 05-10-2018 9:55 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Diomedes, posted 12-12-2018 10:09 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13193
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 115 of 142 (845104)
12-12-2018 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Stile
05-09-2018 11:15 AM


Re: Video of the Pedestrian Collision
Stie writes:

I wonder where the issue lies here.

Options I can think of (can certainly be more than 1 going on at a time):

1 - Hardware (radar, lidar, visions system, sensors...) was not purchased at a level it should have been for the application.
That is, the company saved money on "cheaper equipment" that could only be right most-of-the-time instead of all-the-time for this scenario.
-fault is on designers

2 - Programmers were not very good. Bad programmers = bad programming = they simply "didn't think" that this scenario would come up.
-fault is on programmers

3 - Programmers were good, but not given enough time to setup the system to the levels the equipment is capable of... they were pushed to get something out that was "good enough" even though it could have been better given more time/money.
-fault is on leaders (owners/managers...)

Taking the quote literally "the system was set up to ignore objects that it should have attended to" implies to me that it's more on the programmers and/or leaders. But it's possible this wording is not meant to be taken that literally and it's still a design problem.

I agree. They wanted to design a system as cost-effectively as possible. It would be like building an RPG game trying to get it competitive with the market. The glitch in the "system" is human as much as it is programming. The technology may or may not exist to build the right vehicles, but if they are under pressure to get it marketable and "just good enough" they have the wrong approach. And again...the way I see it the other glitch is designing the technology to coexist with the real world. Not an artificial simulation of the real world.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Stile, posted 05-09-2018 11:15 AM Stile has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13193
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 117 of 142 (845107)
12-12-2018 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Percy
05-10-2018 9:55 AM


Self Driven Humans
If the software in question is something like a schedule calendar or photo album then the consequences of bugs are minor, but if the software is for a nuclear power plant or a space shuttle or a self-driving car then the consequences of bugs can be deadly.
You are saying it better than I can. Technology is great, but humans need to figure out what they want it to do and what they want to be relieved of the responsibility of doing. Anyone who would buy a self-driving car needs to ask themselves the stakes that they are investing.

Completely self-driving cars are a utopian dream for the foreseeable future. What they can already do is amazing, but what they can't do is formidable and frightening. Google and Tesla and Uber and all the rest can do all the development and testing they want, but for a long time, people are still going to have to drive their own cars. But just crash avoidance systems alone will significantly reduce injuries and deaths due to accidents.
Always the optimist! The goal is to forge ahead with the technology with blinders off. We cant be in a hurry to adopt the technology.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Percy, posted 05-10-2018 9:55 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
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