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Author Topic:   Evolution. We Have The Fossils. We Win.
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1606 of 2887 (830879)
04-08-2018 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1602 by PaulK
04-08-2018 10:28 AM


Re: A few pieces of evidence so far
Rapid burial yes - althoug( even that can be some time after death, but wet conditions are absolutely not required. Burial by desert sand will do very well.
Water is needed to make the chemical transformation for fossilization.
The billions of fossils that are found together in layers isn't going to happen in normal time on a local scale. They are not found in isolated single graves, they are found in extensive layers, thousands or even millions in one layer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1602 by PaulK, posted 04-08-2018 10:28 AM PaulK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1609 by edge, posted 04-08-2018 10:43 AM Faith has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(1)
Message 1607 of 2887 (830880)
04-08-2018 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1597 by Faith
04-08-2018 10:21 AM


Re: A few pieces of evidence so far
CAN occur but extreeeeeeeemely rarely and on a teeeeeeeny scale in comparison with the reality.
Nonsense, we have provided you with examples of modern fossilization processes.
You can believe what you want, but expect us to dissent.
Thousands and thousands of dinosaur bodies all tumbling down streams around the world and ending up in a heap of jumbled pieces? Oh that is NOT going to happen under normal circumstances.
Actually, mass die-offs are pretty common.
​Mass animal deaths on the rise worldwide - CBS News
Besides, how do you know that they are all moving at the same time?
And why are they not 'jumbled up' with all species of dinosaurs?
It's really remarkable how ready you all are to accept the impossible and dismiss the realistic based only on your belief in evolution. Such faithfulness is certainly touching, though scientifically untenable.
So, you are saying that Faith's incredulity indicates that something is impossible?
Do you know how many times that has been shown to be faulty reasoning throughout history?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1597 by Faith, posted 04-08-2018 10:21 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1608 of 2887 (830881)
04-08-2018 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1605 by JonF
04-08-2018 10:37 AM


Re: Another part of the film: a dinosaur bed
Note that many different animals live in the same environments today and no doubt did then. Note that there are hundreds of thousands of animal found in the fossil record that are not found in the Lance formation. Was that a gated community of only dinosaurs?
Most of the creatures found as fossils in the strata are found in groups. birds of a feather flock together, and all the more under threatening conditions. I don't get your problem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1605 by JonF, posted 04-08-2018 10:37 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1610 by edge, posted 04-08-2018 10:45 AM Faith has replied
 Message 1621 by JonF, posted 04-08-2018 1:50 PM Faith has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1609 of 2887 (830882)
04-08-2018 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1606 by Faith
04-08-2018 10:39 AM


Re: A few pieces of evidence so far
Water is needed to make the chemical transformation for fossilization.
Please explain these chemical reactions.
And it happens even now.
​Mass animal deaths on the rise worldwide - CBS News
And it is found throughout the fossil record. So why is it not normal?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1606 by Faith, posted 04-08-2018 10:39 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1624 by Faith, posted 04-08-2018 4:06 PM edge has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1610 of 2887 (830883)
04-08-2018 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1608 by Faith
04-08-2018 10:42 AM


Re: Another part of the film: a dinosaur bed
Most of the creatures found as fossils in the strata are found in groups. birds of a feather flock together, and all the more under threatening conditions. I don't get your problem.
Sure. Many species are colonial. Others die and accumulated under local conditions of currents or chemical conditions. There are probably scores of reasons for this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1608 by Faith, posted 04-08-2018 10:42 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1612 by Faith, posted 04-08-2018 10:51 AM edge has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1611 of 2887 (830884)
04-08-2018 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1604 by Faith
04-08-2018 10:33 AM


Re: Another part of the film: a dinosaur bed
????? Why not? ?????
That was the question to you.
Why do we find only the very specific dinosaur communities related to the late Cretaceous in the Lance Formation?
If this was a global event that killed all dinosaurs at once and the flood was collecting all of the fossils, why do we not see stegosaurs in with the select late Cretaceous fossils?
That's hardly 'jumbled up' dinosaur fossil beds. They seem to be very well sorted according to species.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1604 by Faith, posted 04-08-2018 10:33 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1615 by Faith, posted 04-08-2018 10:55 AM edge has replied
 Message 1622 by Faith, posted 04-08-2018 3:57 PM edge has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1612 of 2887 (830885)
04-08-2018 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1610 by edge
04-08-2018 10:45 AM


Re: Another part of the film: a dinosaur bed
If animals died and got buried and fossilized individually, which is what the conventional theory seems to suggest has been the norm over the supposed billions of years, why are they found in sedimentary layers at all?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1610 by edge, posted 04-08-2018 10:45 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1614 by edge, posted 04-08-2018 10:55 AM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 1613 of 2887 (830886)
04-08-2018 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1597 by Faith
04-08-2018 10:21 AM


Re: A few pieces of evidence so far
quote:
Nothing at all significant in comparison with those on the sea floor.
Please produce actual figures to show this. Are there common sea-floor features bigger than the buried monadnocks in the Grand Canyon ?
quote:
CAN occur but extreeeeeeeemely rarely and on a teeeeeeeny scale in comparison with the reality
Please produce evidence for this wildly implausible claim.
quote:
Thousands and thousands of dinosaur bodies all tumbling down streams around the world and ending up in a heap of jumbled pieces? Oh that is NOT going to happen under normal circumstances.
Rivers tend to be persistent features over long periods of time. Why is a long term accumulation of remains so unlikely ?
quote:
It's really remarkable how ready you all are to accept the impossible and dismiss the realistic based only on your belief in evolution. Such faithfulness is certainly touching, though scientifically untenable.
It’s remarkable how you try to reverse the truth. Our explanations are clearly and plainly more reasonable than yours.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1597 by Faith, posted 04-08-2018 10:21 AM Faith has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1614 of 2887 (830887)
04-08-2018 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 1612 by Faith
04-08-2018 10:51 AM


Re: Another part of the film: a dinosaur bed
If animals died and got buried and fossilized individually, which is what the conventional theory seems to suggest has been the norm over the supposed billions of years, ...
Nonsense. We've known about various mass kills and strandings and bone beds for centuries.
why are they found in sedimentary layers at all?
Because sediments accumulate very specific places. Without them, there would be no fossils. And sediments today are still accumulating fossils.
Why do you ask this question?
Edited by edge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1612 by Faith, posted 04-08-2018 10:51 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1617 by Faith, posted 04-08-2018 11:07 AM edge has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1615 of 2887 (830888)
04-08-2018 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 1611 by edge
04-08-2018 10:49 AM


Re: Another part of the film: a dinosaur bed
If this was a global event that killed all dinosaurs at once and the flood was collecting all of the fossils, why do we not see stegosaurs in with the select late Cretaceous fossils?
That's hardly 'jumbled up' dinosaur fossil beds. They seem to be very well sorted according to species.
Did they all hang out together in life? Or don't species tend to hang out among themselves? I don't see the problem.
The bigger question to my mind is why thousands of even one species would end up in a single grave with all their parts jumbled together. In any normal circumstances this wouldn't happen. It's obviously a mass death. While sure that COULD happen on a rare occasion, you said it happened the same way all over the world, and there simply is no better explanation for such occurrences than a worldwide death-dealing event.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1611 by edge, posted 04-08-2018 10:49 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1616 by edge, posted 04-08-2018 11:03 AM Faith has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1616 of 2887 (830889)
04-08-2018 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1615 by Faith
04-08-2018 10:55 AM


Re: Another part of the film: a dinosaur bed
Did they all hang out together in life? Or don't species tend to hang out among themselves? I don't see the problem.
So, you are saying that only one community was affected at any one time?
Of all the Lance Formation (which is found in Wyoming, Montana, North Dakota, Saskatchewan and Alberta) and its equivalents, there was only one dinosaur community?
Sure, no problem at all!
The bigger question to my mind is why thousands of even one species would end up in a single grave with all their parts jumbled together. In any normal circumstances this wouldn't happen. It's obviously a mass death. While sure that COULD happen on a rare occasion, you said it happened the same way all over the world, and there simply is no better explanation for such occurrences than a worldwide death-dealing event.
Actually, if you look at the data, there are hundreds of mass kills every year across the planet. Various populations of bats, birds, fish, pigs, bees, you name it. But they are all from the modern animal communities.
Edited by edge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1615 by Faith, posted 04-08-2018 10:55 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1619 by Faith, posted 04-08-2018 11:14 AM edge has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1617 of 2887 (830890)
04-08-2018 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1614 by edge
04-08-2018 10:55 AM


Re: Another part of the film: a dinosaur bed
If animals died and got buried and fossilized individually, which is what the conventional theory seems to suggest has been the norm over the supposed billions of years, .
..
Nonsense. We've known about various mass kills and strandings and bone beds for centuries.
Oh, normal individual death is NOT the norm then?
Of course you've known about the mass kills, but the question then becomes if THEY are the norm, and they are found all over the world, why on earth didn't the obvious explanation of a worldwide mass kill overcome the silly time-defined theory?
why are they found in sedimentary layers at all?
Because sediments accumulate very specific places. Without them, there would be no fossils. And sediments today are still accumulating fossils.
Ah yes, layers that cover thousands of square miles all stacked neatly one upon another, full of creatures in groups that died together as they flocked together in life. The sediments today accumulate in small local pockets, do not extend for thousands of square miles, are not layered to any extent like those of the known geologic column, are not straight and flat but would have beveled edges because they occur in basins, and such edges are not seen in the stacks of strata identified with the Geo Column, and the fossils accumulating are not in great groups as they are in the strata etc etc etc. Here's another piece of incredulity for you: I find it very hard to believe that you yourelf could accept such a comparison with a straight face.
It is quite clear that in the past the sediments did NOT collect in very specific places, they did in fact span vast areas of whole continents.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1614 by edge, posted 04-08-2018 10:55 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1618 by edge, posted 04-08-2018 11:12 AM Faith has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1618 of 2887 (830891)
04-08-2018 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 1617 by Faith
04-08-2018 11:07 AM


Re: Another part of the film: a dinosaur bed
Oh, normal individual death is NOT the norm then?
Did I ever say that they were 'the norm'?
They are common in the fossil record and in modern times as well.
Of course you've known about the mass kills, but the question then becomes if THEY are the norm, and they are found all over the world, why on earth didn't the obvious explanation of a worldwide mass kill overcome the silly time-defined theory?
Because the occurred at different times. Including the present.
... (rambling complaint snipped)...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1617 by Faith, posted 04-08-2018 11:07 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1619 of 2887 (830892)
04-08-2018 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1616 by edge
04-08-2018 11:03 AM


Re: Another part of the film: a dinosaur bed
Of all the Lance Formation (which is found in Wyoming, Montana, North Dakota, Saskatchewan and Alberta) and its equivalents, there was only one dinosaur community?
Why not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1616 by edge, posted 04-08-2018 11:03 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1620 by edge, posted 04-08-2018 11:20 AM Faith has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1620 of 2887 (830893)
04-08-2018 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1619 by Faith
04-08-2018 11:14 AM


Re: Another part of the film: a dinosaur bed
Why not?
You were asked first. By more than one person.
But since you are not courteous enough to respond, I will try.
It is because the Lance Formation occurred at a specific time during dinosaur evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1619 by Faith, posted 04-08-2018 11:14 AM Faith has not replied

  
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