Catholics are making it up.

The current pope is making changes to the rules of being a Catholic.Last week he said that priests could forgive those who have had abortions - previously impossible; this week he says that divorced Catholics can remarry; previously impossible without a papal annulment, remember Henry VIII?Catholics now allow married priests that have switched from other beliefs of the Christian franchise into the Catholic priesthood - though existing Catholic priests may not marry (but for how long, given the massive decline in new priest recruits?) Many years ago it stopped being a 'sin' to eat meat on friday and it became a matter of 'conscience' whether a Catholic used birth control - but only in the educated West of course.Back in 2007, the then pope did the most extraordinary thing of abolishing limbo - the place where babies that haven't been baptised had been sent for over 800 years instead of heaven, hell or purgatory.The Pope ends state of limbo after 800 yearsSo, religions make stuff up and change their beliefs to suit the times they operate in. What pragmatic, flexible corporations, these religions are. One wonders just what else they might have made up......

Personally I'm rather disappointed, the more out of touch with everyday realities the religions become the faster they disappear.But, it's an indictment of religions that their 'truths' are abandonned when they become inconvenient. It's very clear that the Catholic church simply made up all sorts of nonsense, probably as a means of control over their customers. Why should anyone believe anything they say?

Yes, of course. It's an indictment of the original preposterous doctrine, that's why it's abandonned. This isn't about individual believers it's about the religious leaders and their institutions who tell the individuals what to believe and what not to believe - mostly I believe for their own purposes. It's an example of a political organisation adapting its strategy in order to keep its influence and membership. The people who make up these absurdities, claim to do it on behalf of god and the members are often threatened with excommunication and everlasting damnation if the don't comply. You can't just shrug it off as though they're religious fripperies that never really mattered. The family whose baby died before the priest could baptise it was told that their baby could never get to heaven, the women who aborted a child was damned forever. There were umpteen ways of getting on the wrong side of god and almost as many of buying your way back into his favour - all done, of course, through you friendly priest. I have, as they say, seen the light - religions have no clothes on and it needs to be pointed out from time to time. Like others here, I also accept evolution but that doesn't stop me - and others - continuing to discuss it.

Double post deletedEdited by Tangle, : No reason given.

There are hundreds of dead gods and belief systems. Religions come and go. Your brand of fundamentalism is totally out of touch with reality and has been dying since the enlightenment. Here in the UK church attendance has plumeted. Christianity in Europe is mostly now cultural with individuals picking the bits they like or abandoning it altogether.

That should tell us something shouldn't it? Many things actually - the main one being that they invented the entire shebang using the power structures and mores of the time and the only way they can hang on to any semblance of credibility in modern civilisations is to dump the more obvious nonsenses as society becomes more educated and less superstitious. Which is, of course, the answer.

When was the last time you executed an adulterer?10If there is a man who commits adultery with another man's wife, one who commits adultery with his friend's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. 11If there is a man who lies with his father's wife, he has uncovered his father's nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

Anybody who cares about the veracity of their beliefs should care when God's representative on earth tells them that god's previous representative on earth was wrong about what god wants.It questions the entire belief edifice. You're not comparing religious beliefs with science? Seriously?

I don't think you understand Catholicism. The pope is God's representative on earth - quite literally; passed down hand-by-hand from Peter. In some matters he is infallible, in all matters he is authoritative. If the pope can change his mind on doctrine just because times have changed and people don't believe him anymore, the core of that relationship is broken. One day you're going to hell for something, the next you're not. The whole belief system is violated. The entire premise for science is that it's only what we know so far - it's always subject to change when better evidence is found. Religion on the other hand claims to be the 'truth', popes are claimed to be infallible. Well some truths appear not so true and popes are, after all just people. Game over.

Faith, you just agreed with everything I said.Religions come and go Your kind of fundamentalist religious belief is dying Church attendance (and religious Christianity) is declining rapidly in Europe But don't weep just for the UK and Europe Faith, the USA is going exactly the same way.http://www.washingtonpost.com/...ss-affiliated-with-religionIt's a developmental thing, as our societies age, we give up our childish beliefs.

It's exactly the same process. This is because both systems are manmade, but religions are not supposed to be manmade, they're supposed to be immutable - Godmade. By allowing changes in their core doctrines, the religions are accepting that they are purely parochial and terestrial. Where did that come from? The task is to replace religious nonsense with sensible secular models - democracy, criminal justice systems, local governance, humanism - 'do as you would be done by' stuff. My problems with the religious world view are too many for this thread but, but you can include beliefs that allow people to victimise others - be it by terrorism or simple discrimination - to the detriment of society as a whole and human personal health and happiness generally.

Nothing can be learned about God - no-one has exceptional knowledge or even *any* knowledge of god. Revealed religion is not knowledge, it's subjective opinion. The point this thread is making is that religions make stuff up to suit them - as is demonstrated when they change their minds about it. Scripture is not immune to this process, it too is manmade, made up and changed and interpreted to suit.

It is obviously a good thing. Religions are being tamed by secular society - they no longer stone people for blasphemy etc - or at least in those countries lucky enough to have developed advanced democracies. Yes, they do it by saying bugger off to those that make the rules - like married people can't use condoms without risking everlasting damnation. (True) Well it was but is no longer. As were all the others listed by me and then Faith. The church is quietly dropping dozens of beliefs and doctrines. I'm not objecting to it, I'm pointing out that the process of jetisoning beliefs exposes them to the criticism that they have made ALL of it up. Agreed. But it is going away - it's in decline across the developed world. I do welcome it. I welcome all moves to muzzle religions from their worst excesses. Um, no. This is not my point. My point is - I repeat - that in the process of abandoning inconvenient ideologies and 2000 year old dogma, they are actually saying that they were wrong about core truths. If they were wrong about, say the existence of purgatory, then why should they be right about any other aspects of their belief system? It's my position that the entirety of their - and, as it happens, all - belief systems is a total fabrication. These changes simply provide more evidence that this is the case.

Yes, says me. It's an open challenge, I'm happy to examine any evidence you can provide that you or anyone has special knowledge of god. Who says I object to religions changing?The point I'm making is that when religions drop long held doctrines, they expose themselves to the obvious criticism that they were wrong about what they previously described as a truth. The comparison with science is not valid - science is a search for knowledge from evidence and its finding are admitted to be tentative and subject to change. Religions are dogmatic - believe this or go to hell.Read my reply to Mr H above.

It has; but only because I've run out of combinations. It was, but I'm fond of a running joke. I'm saying that if core beliefs are abandoned, the church leaves itself open to the question of what else is no longer true? Perhaps they made it ALL up? (They did. Now THAT is an assertion.) How does this help you? What is says to me is that a single man can change the dogma of a world religion. Where is god in this process? Perhaps god doesn't agree, how would we know?