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Author Topic:   Catholics are making it up.
Faith
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Posts: 34460
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 331 of 419 (870173)
01-13-2020 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 330 by Tangle
01-13-2020 5:13 PM


I have a very strong aversion to seeing that movie but since you think it's worth it could you give a little more of an idea why you think that? Thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by Tangle, posted 01-13-2020 5:13 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 332 by Tangle, posted 01-13-2020 5:36 PM Faith has responded

  
Tangle
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Posts: 7296
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 332 of 419 (870174)
01-13-2020 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 331 by Faith
01-13-2020 5:26 PM


Faith writes:

I have a very strong aversion to seeing that movie but since you think it's worth it could you give a little more of an idea why you think that? Thanks.

It's just a good film - well written, well filmed and brilliantly acted. Up for an oscar. It isn't a whitewash either - there's some tough stuff in it.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by Faith, posted 01-13-2020 5:26 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 334 by Faith, posted 01-14-2020 7:07 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34460
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 333 of 419 (870175)
01-13-2020 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 326 by ringo
01-13-2020 11:04 AM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
That passage is understood to refer to Catholic practices so abstaining from meats is understood to refer to abstention on Fridays, when fish is eaten instead. I was wondering if maybe the abstention was more lengthy in other times, but Friday is the practice we were all aware of when I was growing up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 326 by ringo, posted 01-13-2020 11:04 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 336 by ringo, posted 01-14-2020 10:48 AM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34460
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 334 of 419 (870183)
01-14-2020 7:07 AM
Reply to: Message 332 by Tangle
01-13-2020 5:36 PM


two popes
Thanks. Enough to get me to give it a look.

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 Message 332 by Tangle, posted 01-13-2020 5:36 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17835
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 335 of 419 (870188)
01-14-2020 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 329 by dwise1
01-13-2020 2:18 PM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
dwise1 writes:

...how do we explain Abel's burnt offerings to YHWH (AKA "God")? Yes, he got wool and possibly milk and other dairy products from his sheep, but why then kill them to make burnt offerings?


I've asked that same question and got no answer.

dwise1 writes:

However, the earlier story was that meat eating started with The Fall;


That would make more sense; God gave Adam and Eve animal skins to replace their fig leaves.

"Carpe" looks like the English "carp" which is a fish. Therefore "carpe diem" must mean "fish day", which every Catholic knows is Friday.

It would be funnier (though even worse linguistically) if it was "sieze the fish".

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by dwise1, posted 01-13-2020 2:18 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 337 by Faith, posted 01-14-2020 10:54 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17835
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 336 of 419 (870189)
01-14-2020 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 333 by Faith
01-13-2020 5:40 PM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
Faith writes:

That passage is understood to refer to Catholic practices so abstaining from meats is understood to refer to abstention on Fridays, when fish is eaten instead.


Well, of course fish is meat in the Biblical context - e.g. shedding of blood.
quote:
Genesis 9:3-5 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
Fish got blood.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 333 by Faith, posted 01-13-2020 5:40 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 338 by frako, posted 01-14-2020 10:57 AM ringo has responded
 Message 342 by Faith, posted 01-14-2020 11:28 AM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34460
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 337 of 419 (870190)
01-14-2020 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 335 by ringo
01-14-2020 10:42 AM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
Cain and Abel were after the Fall, so what's the problem with the burnt offering Abel gave? Offerings were needed for sin, sin followed the Fall.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by ringo, posted 01-14-2020 10:42 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 339 by ringo, posted 01-14-2020 11:15 AM Faith has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2851
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 338 of 419 (870191)
01-14-2020 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 336 by ringo
01-14-2020 10:48 AM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
So on Fridays we can only eat veggies, and octopuses, crustaceans and insects . Classified as bloodless.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by ringo, posted 01-14-2020 10:48 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 17835
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 339 of 419 (870192)
01-14-2020 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 337 by Faith
01-14-2020 10:54 AM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
Faith writes:

Cain and Abel were after the Fall, so what's the problem with the burnt offering Abel gave? Offerings were needed for sin, sin followed the Fall.


I wasn't sure if i had had the discussion with you specifically so I didn't accuse you of saying it - but some literalist nutbars claim that the passage in Genesis was God giving Noah permission for the first time to eat meat.

You literalist nutbars have a problem conflating the Adam and Eve story with the Cain and Abel story and the Noah story. They're different stories. They don't need to agree in every detail. Trying to shoehorn all of them into agreement is what makes your theology so stupid.


"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by Faith, posted 01-14-2020 10:54 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 341 by Faith, posted 01-14-2020 11:26 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17835
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 340 of 419 (870193)
01-14-2020 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 338 by frako
01-14-2020 10:57 AM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
frako writes:

So on Fridays we can only eat veggies, and octopuses, crustaceans and insects .


You can't eat crustaceans at all. That would be like wearing a cotton-polyester shirt, strictly taboo. The same would apply to insects, including the four-legged ones, unless they have cloven hooves and chew their cud. I'm not sure where octopuses fit in in Judaic taxonomy.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by frako, posted 01-14-2020 10:57 AM frako has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34460
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 341 of 419 (870194)
01-14-2020 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 339 by ringo
01-14-2020 11:15 AM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
That DOES look like the first time God told people to eat meat, what's the problem with that? Do we have to assume that Abel ate the sacrifice he made? It doesn't say one way or the other, so if they were still under the vegetarian rule of Genesis 1:whatever it was, then he wouldn't have eaten the sacrifice.

And what's stupid about fitting all the parts of the Bible together anyway? Isn't that what one would expect if it's God's work?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by ringo, posted 01-14-2020 11:15 AM ringo has responded

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Faith
Member
Posts: 34460
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 342 of 419 (870195)
01-14-2020 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 336 by ringo
01-14-2020 10:48 AM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
The RCC seems to have decreed that fish was not the meat their tradition forbade, who am I to argue?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by ringo, posted 01-14-2020 10:48 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 344 by ringo, posted 01-14-2020 11:41 AM Faith has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17835
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 343 of 419 (870196)
01-14-2020 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 341 by Faith
01-14-2020 11:26 AM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
Faith writes:

That DOES look like the first time God told people to eat meat, what's the problem with that?


The problem is that you can't seem to get your story straight.

Faith writes:

Do we have to assume that Abel ate the sacrifice he made?


Why would we not? Eating the meat would be less objectionable than wasting the meat.

Faith writes:

It doesn't say one way or the other, so if they were still under the vegetarian rule of Genesis 1:whatever it was, then he wouldn't have eaten the sacrifice.


It also doesn't say that the "vegetarian rule" was a rule. God said they could eat this. He didn't say they couldn't eat that.

Faith writes:

And what's stupid about fitting all the parts of the Bible together anyway?


It's the conclusions you draw that are stupid. Imagine the stupid conclusions if you tried to fit The Grapes of Wrath and The Lord of the Rings together.

Faith writes:

Isn't that what one would expect if it's God's work?


And since the stories don't fit together, we can conclude that it is not God's work. God, if He existed, would not need you to try to stitch His stories together.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by Faith, posted 01-14-2020 11:26 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17835
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 344 of 419 (870197)
01-14-2020 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 342 by Faith
01-14-2020 11:28 AM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
Faith writes:

The RCC seems to have decreed that fish was not the meat their tradition forbade, who am I to argue?


It just goes to show that both you and the RCC can come to stupid conclusions if you start with stupid premises.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by Faith, posted 01-14-2020 11:28 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 345 by Faith, posted 01-14-2020 11:46 AM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34460
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 345 of 419 (870198)
01-14-2020 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 344 by ringo
01-14-2020 11:41 AM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
Oh nonsense. They put their traditions above the Bible and I'm trying to stick with the Bible. Forbidding meat is already wrong according to the Bible so if they also want to decree that fish aren't the kind of meat that's forbidden there's nothing to tell them they're wrong about that either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by ringo, posted 01-14-2020 11:41 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 346 by ringo, posted 01-14-2020 11:53 AM Faith has responded

  
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