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Author Topic:   Catholics are making it up.
Phat
Member
Posts: 13699
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 391 of 419 (870614)
01-22-2020 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 390 by ringo
01-22-2020 3:51 PM


Dogmatic Prophecy
ringo writes:

Complete would be more than just good. You are limiting your made-up god.

I prefer assigning evil to what God is not. I believe that God is never evil.

Rev 1:8NKJV writes:

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

Pretty simple. Always was and is and always will be. That's the God you claim I "made up".

Now for the evil part:
Rather than having God be "complete" as in completly responsible for every stubbed toe, aborted baby, and war or storm, we find the dragon taking the hit. Whether this Dragon was our snake in Genesis is debateable...though the apologists certainly believe it.

But wait, there's more:

Rev 17:8 writes:

The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Note that Jesus was, is and forever shall be while this Beast character was, is not, and yet is (for those who miss the boat)

Rev 13:1-4 writes:

Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?"

Looks like the Dragon gave authority to the beast.
Rev 18:1-11 writes:

After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a loud voice, saying, "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! 3 For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury."

4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying,"Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. 6 Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her. 7 In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, 'I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.' 8 Therefore her plagues will come in one day -- death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.
"The kings of the earth who committed fornication and lived luxuriously with her will weep and lament for her, when they see the smoke of her burning, 10 standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying,'Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.'

11 "And the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise anymore:

You can laugh at the silly absurdity of the apologists, but there is some agreement that the United States is, in fact, Babylon The Great. Hopefully not, for I certainly don't want to be judged that harshly for my entitled arrogance!

And I know critics will say that this whole interpretation is negative and silly, but I encourage skeptics to keep it in mind as our planet becomes more crowded, wars happen due to competition over diminishing resources, and global warming takes its inevitable toll.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”lvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott

This message is a reply to:
 Message 390 by ringo, posted 01-22-2020 3:51 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 392 by ringo, posted 01-22-2020 4:56 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17924
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 392 of 419 (870620)
01-22-2020 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 391 by Phat
01-22-2020 4:35 PM


Re: Dogmatic Prophecy
Phat writes:

I prefer assigning evil to what God is not.


That's contradicted by your own quote, Revelation 1:8, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." That doesn't include anything that God is not.

Phat writes:

Rather than having God be "complete" as in completly responsible for every stubbed toe, aborted baby, and war or storm, we find the dragon taking the hit.


Where does this dragon fit outside of alpha and omega?

Phat writes:

... this Beast character was, is not, and yet is....


That's a cute play on words but does it actually mean anything?

Phat writes:

You can laugh at the silly absurdity of the apologists....


Thanks. I will.

Phat writes:

And I know critics will say that this whole interpretation is negative and silly, but I encourage skeptics to keep it in mind as our planet becomes more crowded, wars happen due to competition over diminishing resources, and global warming takes its inevitable toll.


The consequences of overpopulation, etc. have nothing to do with that utterly stupid interpretation of the Revelation.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 391 by Phat, posted 01-22-2020 4:35 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 393 by Phat, posted 01-22-2020 5:07 PM ringo has responded
 Message 402 by Phat, posted 01-23-2020 8:04 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13699
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 393 of 419 (870622)
01-22-2020 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 392 by ringo
01-22-2020 4:56 PM


Re: Dogmatic Prophecy
jar writes:

t's possible to learn from the content of all scripture and the purpose of all scripture is to market the position favored by the author.
The reader's task is to test the content against reason, logic and reality.

What does logic say will happen given the history of human nature and war? The planet clearly will become unsustainable for everyone. Some will have to go.
ringo writes:

The only Satan is us - but us including Iran of course.

So if we get involved in wars over diminishing resources as global warming rises, according to experts, to the water level of the statue of liberty's elbow and noting that most great cities are near sea level, what would logic suggest that humans will do...nevermind what they must do.
you guys have no faith in God and lots more faith in humanity (without God) than I do.

ringo writes:

The consequences of overpopulation, etc. have nothing to do with that utterly stupid interpretation of the Revelation.


2 Peter 3:1-4 writes:

Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation."

Scoff much, ringo?

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”lvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by ringo, posted 01-22-2020 4:56 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 394 by ringo, posted 01-22-2020 5:20 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 395 by jar, posted 01-22-2020 5:30 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17924
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 394 of 419 (870624)
01-22-2020 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 393 by Phat
01-22-2020 5:07 PM


Re: Dogmatic Prophecy
Phat writes:

So if we get involved in wars over diminishing resources....


Why would we do that? Wars don't gain resources any more. We're not a bunch of feudal fiefdoms exchanging farmland any more. Wars use up resources, waste resources.

Phat writes:

you guys have no faith in God and lots more faith in humanity (without God) than I do.


The evidence shows that everything that has ever been done for humanity has been done by humanity.

Phat writes:

Scoff much, ringo?


Note that the "last days" that Peter spoke of have been coming for more than two thousand years. So yes, I do scoff at people who take the idea of the "last days" seriously. Peter might as well have prophesied that, "People will laugh at knock-knock jokes."

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 393 by Phat, posted 01-22-2020 5:07 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32167
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 395 of 419 (870625)
01-22-2020 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 393 by Phat
01-22-2020 5:07 PM


Re: Dogmatic Prophecy
Phat writes:

What does logic say will happen given the history of human nature and war? The planet clearly will become unsustainable for everyone. Some will have to go.

LOL

Stop and think Phat. What war has killed as many people as the flu?

Phat writes:

So if we get involved in wars over diminishing resources as global warming rises, according to experts, to the water level of the statue of liberty's elbow and noting that most great cities are near sea level, what would logic suggest that humans will do...nevermind what they must do.
you guys have no faith in God and lots more faith in humanity (without God) than I do.

Where is the evidence of any god ever doing anything?

Is there evidence of humans doing things?

And funny you bring up 2 Peter since you and I have discussed it many times. It is the clear example of the necessity for the Apologist. The clear prophecy made by none other than Jesus that all the following marketeers of the new religion had based their sales pitch on was been shown to be at best failed and utterly false. It was necessary to totally rewrite the story in some attempt to make it fit with reality.

That marketing scheme worked then and still is a money maker.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 393 by Phat, posted 01-22-2020 5:07 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 400 by Phat, posted 01-23-2020 7:36 PM jar has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7343
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 396 of 419 (870626)
01-22-2020 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 388 by Phat
01-22-2020 3:34 PM


Re: All Religions Are Not The Same.
Phat writes:

So of course miricles happen sporadically in other religions.

Things that people call miracles 'happen' in all cultures.

What you fail to understand is that all religions are not simply relative to the culture.

Yes they are, they do not and can not exist outside their culture. There is no known incident of any religion of culture X spontaneously forming in culture Y.

God stepped out of eternity into time on this planet and happened to speak to the people whom He did for a reason.

Pure drivel.

I would guess that out of 1000 miracles reported, perhaps 10% are genuine.

You would claim? There are no miracles, if they existed we'd know about them - this discussion would be redundant.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by Phat, posted 01-22-2020 3:34 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5075
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 397 of 419 (870687)
01-23-2020 4:36 PM


All religions are of human origin.
I guess I’m late to the discussion but here are my thoughts on it all. God has done what He has done and is going to do what He is going to do. All religions are human attempts at trying to figure out both of those issues.
As this thread is about Catholicism I’ll just deal with Christianity. There are considerable differences in the beliefs of the various Christian factions. Evidence of those differences is evident when you listen to what Faith has to say about the Roman Church.
Essentially Christianity is humanly thought out based on some relatively simple principles. Firstly is the belief that God the Father is responsible for the fact that life as we know it exists. Secondly is the belief that the human figure of Jesus perfectly embodied the (Word) or the nature of God, and that we can have confidence in that belief because God resurrected Jesus. (Obviously if you aren’t Christian all of that can be rejected. It is a belief.)
How we go about understanding the Biblical message is an open question. There is the belief that the Bible is essentially dictated by God and the only human input is around how the message is worded. Others like myself see the Bible as being a library of books, and that each book should be understood on its own merits, with the realization that all of them are of human construction, which does not mean that they are incorrect in what they have written. There are huge contradictions in the Bible so we are left as humans to sort things out.
As I have said before, I contend that there has been a progressive understanding amongst humans and our understanding evolves, and that continues to this day and will in the future as well.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


Replies to this message:
 Message 398 by Tangle, posted 01-23-2020 5:54 PM GDR has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7343
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 398 of 419 (870689)
01-23-2020 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 397 by GDR
01-23-2020 4:36 PM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
GDR writes:

As I have said before, I contend that there has been a progressive understanding amongst humans and our understanding evolves, and that continues to this day and will in the future as well.

You can contend all you like but you have absolutely no reason to contend it.

You know no more about your god than the iron age men that first invented him. All that is 'known' about your god is written in those books that you hold so dear. Everything since is invention on top of that original invention.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 397 by GDR, posted 01-23-2020 4:36 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 399 by GDR, posted 01-23-2020 6:23 PM Tangle has responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5075
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 399 of 419 (870691)
01-23-2020 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 398 by Tangle
01-23-2020 5:54 PM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
Tangle writes:

You can contend all you like but you have absolutely no reason to contend it.

You know no more about your god than the iron age men that first invented him. All that is 'known' about your god is written in those books that you hold so dear. Everything since is invention on top of that original invention.

Those books are evidence, as is the fact that the first followers of Jesus clearly believed that Jesus had been resurrected. I am not saying that the evidence is conclusive. We have come to different conclusions about whether or not the resurrection was an historical event.

If the resurrection is historical then we can know more than the iron age men.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 398 by Tangle, posted 01-23-2020 5:54 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 401 by Phat, posted 01-23-2020 7:39 PM GDR has responded
 Message 404 by Tangle, posted 01-24-2020 3:28 AM GDR has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13699
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 400 of 419 (870698)
01-23-2020 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 395 by jar
01-22-2020 5:30 PM


Re: Dogmatic Prophecy
jar writes:

Where is the evidence of any god ever doing anything?

I'm still having trouble understanding your definitions. They obviously conflict with what i was taught and more importantly what I believe using my own reasoning. From what I gather, your whole definition of a believer is along with a consensus between belief and logic, reason, and reality. You never seem to rely on God to do anything so what's the whole point of a belief, anyway?
You may respond by asking me to stop. Full stop. And examine the whole history of the religion in light of what evidence we do know.

Is there evidence of humans doing things?
Irrelevant. Of course humans do things. We could argue that they do everything of any significance involving claims of Christ's living interaction with humanity. There is no evidence for that, apart from subjective claims. (Which I would argue are huge) I don't buy the idea of rejecting God's influence nor of throwing Him away in any way shape or form. To do that would invalidate my claim of being a believer since my definition of being a believer involves believing in His influence. It does little good believing in an aloof God.

It seems your emphasis in your definition of being a believer is that you, along with other humans, belong to this club and that the club motto is to do what the club figurehead once wrote about doing. In this context, it is irrelevant if the club figurehead(Jesus Christ) still lives, ever lived, ever was God, or communes with humanity at all.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”lvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott

This message is a reply to:
 Message 395 by jar, posted 01-22-2020 5:30 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 403 by jar, posted 01-23-2020 8:08 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13699
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 401 of 419 (870700)
01-23-2020 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 399 by GDR
01-23-2020 6:23 PM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
GDR writes:

Those books are evidence, as is the fact that the first followers of Jesus clearly believed that Jesus had been resurrected. I am not saying that the evidence is conclusive. We have come to different conclusions about whether or not the resurrection was a historical event.

I would argue that the only evidence we actually have is the behavior of humans in response to these writings. Atheists may well argue that they too can do civic duties with no religion needed.

Our interaction with fellow believers carries more weight because of our shared belief, but this does not prevent us from interacting with any group of people doing Christ's work---either knowingly or unknowingly. Wouldnt you agree?


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”lvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott

This message is a reply to:
 Message 399 by GDR, posted 01-23-2020 6:23 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 407 by GDR, posted 01-24-2020 10:02 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13699
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 402 of 419 (870703)
01-23-2020 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 392 by ringo
01-22-2020 4:56 PM


Re: Dogmatic Prophecy
Phat writes:

I prefer assigning evil to what God is not.


That's contradicted by your own quote, Revelation 1:8, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." That doesn't include anything that God is not.
Of course it doesn't. That's my whole point--God is *not* evil. God is not a liar. God is not deceptive. These are the traits of Satan. And even if you argue that Satan is merely the behavior of humans, the Beast is shown to be an *is not* as in is not God. If humans choose to behave independently of God, they will find themselves not on the guest list since by default they followed the Beast rather than God. I know its all silly and allegorical. But it does set up an either/or choice.

You may argue that you prefer to opt-out and obey the message while considering the messenger, His Father, and the Dragon as myths. But if reality includes this whole paradigm you cant opt-out. Now let's discuss the idea that you have no free will. (Again)


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”lvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by ringo, posted 01-22-2020 4:56 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 409 by ringo, posted 01-24-2020 10:50 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32167
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 403 of 419 (870704)
01-23-2020 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 400 by Phat
01-23-2020 7:36 PM


Re: Dogmatic Prophecy
Let's start by pointing ou that nothing in your post actually addresses the issue I raised in the post to which you replied. But let's tray again.

Phat writes:

You never seem to rely on God to do anything so what's the whole point of a belief, anyway?

Once again you are marketing the "What has God done for me" and "What must God do for me" theology.

Phat writes:

To do that would invalidate my claim of being a believer since my definition of being a believer involves believing in His influence. It does little good believing in an aloof God.

And again.

Phat writes:

It seems your emphasis in your definition of being a believer is that you, along with other humans, belong to this club and that the club motto is to do what the club figurehead once wrote about doing. In this context, it is irrelevant if the club figurehead(Jesus Christ) still lives, ever lived, ever was God, or communes with humanity at all.

Almost. It is a club that says we should do what the central figure of the club says we should do.

But what about the points you did not discuss?

quote:
Phat writes:

What does logic say will happen given the history of human nature and war? The planet clearly will become unsustainable for everyone. Some will have to go.

LOL

Stop and think Phat. What war has killed as many people as the flu?

Phat writes:

So if we get involved in wars over diminishing resources as global warming rises, according to experts, to the water level of the statue of liberty's elbow and noting that most great cities are near sea level, what would logic suggest that humans will do...nevermind what they must do.
you guys have no faith in God and lots more faith in humanity (without God) than I do.

Where is the evidence of any god ever doing anything?

Is there evidence of humans doing things?

And funny you bring up 2 Peter since you and I have discussed it many times. It is the clear example of the necessity for the Apologist. The clear prophecy made by none other than Jesus that all the following marketeers of the new religion had based their sales pitch on was been shown to be at best failed and utterly false. It was necessary to totally rewrite the story in some attempt to make it fit with reality.

That marketing scheme worked then and still is a money maker.



My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by Phat, posted 01-23-2020 7:36 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 405 by Phat, posted 01-24-2020 4:32 AM jar has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7343
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 404 of 419 (870709)
01-24-2020 3:28 AM
Reply to: Message 399 by GDR
01-23-2020 6:23 PM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
GDR writes:

Those books are evidence

They are evidence that some unknown people wrote some stories and that some politicians several centuries later chose some of them and redacted others to form a book and create a useful power structure. That's all.

as is the fact that the first followers of Jesus clearly believed that Jesus had been resurrected.

According to the stories they also believed that it was the beginning of the end of times. That the second coming was imminent. It wasn't. They were superstitious primitive people that believed all sorts of nonsense.

However you asserted more than that, you were claiming some sort of progressive revelation -

quote:
As I have said before, I contend that there has been a progressive understanding amongst humans and our understanding evolves, and that continues to this day and will in the future as well.

I say that you have no evidence to support that claim.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 399 by GDR, posted 01-23-2020 6:23 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 408 by GDR, posted 01-24-2020 10:43 AM Tangle has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13699
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 405 of 419 (870710)
01-24-2020 4:32 AM
Reply to: Message 403 by jar
01-23-2020 8:08 PM


Re: Dogmatic Prophecy
jar writes:

What war has killed as many people as the flu?

The Flu was reported to have killed 50 million+. World War II was claimed to have killed 75 million, including civilians. But what's your point? We will have a uniques situation where the top cities of the world, being at near sea level, will require mass migration. Though people (perhaps rightly) scoff at the whole mark of the beast "buy & sell" apologetic, the fact remains that global money is unstable and the US is the nation most capable of mass destruction.

While I won't give too much credence to the prophecies of the apologists, I won't ignore them either. Jesus Christ is to me more than simply a character in the book. And quite frankly I believe that the evidence you ask for regarding God's communion/interaction with society is never going to be obvious.

And funny you bring up 2 Peter since you and I have discussed it many times. It is the clear example of the necessity for the Apologist.

Even if the vast global population of believers has it wrong, they will still behave as if it is real. This much is likely factual.

  • There will be further global population increase and more nations competing for resources.
  • The US will continue to have a sizeable portion of its population believing in last days' theology and being a stick in the mud regarding globalization. We may use force to acquire the resources that we have traditionally stolen.

  • Whether God intervenes or not, people will expect such an event more and more as the global problems increase. many will likely fall away from the faith and the love of many will grow cold(in the name of survival)

    Conclusion: It is irrelevant if it all is made up or not. Belief is still very powerful and there will never be a shortage of charlatans selling easy solutions.


    “The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”lvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 403 by jar, posted 01-23-2020 8:08 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 406 by jar, posted 01-24-2020 7:46 AM Phat has not yet responded

      
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