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Author Topic:   Catholics are making it up.
GDR
Member
Posts: 5409
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 436 of 505 (878132)
06-25-2020 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 435 by AnswersInGenitals
06-25-2020 3:33 PM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
AIG writes:

To understand the viewpoints of the writers of the gospels you can examine their modern day counterparts. I’m quite sure that DJ Trump does not consider himself to be a god, but he is certainly sure that he has god-like wisdom, being smarter than any general, any economist, any epidemiologist, any __________________, and now to have god-like powers over people’s lives. And now look at his chroniclers. These would be his various press secretaries: Sean Spicer, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, and Kayleigh McEneny. If you believe the writers of the gospels to be unbiased and accurate, then you believe Spicer, Sanders, McEneny to be unbiased and accurate.

Of course the writers had biases as does everyone who writes accounts such as these. It does not mean that they don't have integrity in what they write. I have gone over this in other threads but it is clear that the writers believed what it was that they recorded. The accounts are not what anyone had expected or wanted for that matter. A messiah was supposed to drive out the Romans, but here is someone saying that the way to deal with the Romans is to love in order to change their hearts. Not a popular message.

On top of that it is hardly complimentary when it comes to the apostles. It took the resurrection to happen before they got the message, and even that took a while. If they were going to make it up they would have had Jesus shining like a star or something similar.

They claim as did others that these accounts were accurate while there were still eyewitnesses.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 435 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 06-25-2020 3:33 PM AnswersInGenitals has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 14148
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 437 of 505 (878137)
06-26-2020 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 435 by AnswersInGenitals
06-25-2020 3:33 PM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
Not really. The majority of the public is unaware of the supernatural realm.
Call me crazy.

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 435 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 06-25-2020 3:33 PM AnswersInGenitals has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16320
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 438 of 505 (878139)
06-26-2020 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 436 by GDR
06-25-2020 6:54 PM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
quote:
Of course the writers had biases as does everyone who writes accounts such as these. It does not mean that they don't have integrity in what they write.

Do you have integrity in what you write?

Yes it is a trap question, but it is a trap you created for yourself.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 436 by GDR, posted 06-25-2020 6:54 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14148
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 439 of 505 (878161)
06-26-2020 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 430 by ringo
06-25-2020 10:19 AM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
ringo writes:

What ulterior motives would the critics of your dogma have?

The same motives that satan himself has. To discredit Jesus Christ, to seduce people (through false logic and wisdom) to ultimately deny the truth in the Bible, throw the book away as an authoritative source and to promote inclusive humanism.
Which would not be a problem did not Satan exist.

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 430 by ringo, posted 06-25-2020 10:19 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 440 by jar, posted 06-26-2020 12:42 PM Phat has responded
 Message 444 by ringo, posted 06-26-2020 4:07 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32664
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 440 of 505 (878163)
06-26-2020 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 439 by Phat
06-26-2020 12:14 PM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
Phat writes:

To discredit Jesus Christ, to seduce people (through false logic and wisdom) to ultimately deny the truth in the Bible, throw the book away as an authoritative source and to promote inclusive humanism.

Phat, Phat, Phat. Have you absolutely no honor?

Ringo and I as well as almost all others expect the conmen Apologists have told you to NOT throw the book away but to be truthful about what is actually written.

Nor have you ever pointed to any examples of Ringo or I or anyone else except the Apologists using false logic or even claiming any wisdom.

It is the medicine men standing on the tailgate of the medicine wagon selling Snake Oil that make the claims of TRUTH or WISDOM.

We simply ask you to look at reality honestly; what is actually written.

You finally did that with "the Venite" but concluded that what it actually said was not what you wanted to hear and so you rejected it. You created YOUR reality just like you create YOUR God and YOUR Jesus.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 439 by Phat, posted 06-26-2020 12:14 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 441 by Phat, posted 06-26-2020 2:15 PM jar has not yet responded
 Message 442 by Phat, posted 06-26-2020 2:29 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14148
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 441 of 505 (878166)
06-26-2020 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 440 by jar
06-26-2020 12:42 PM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
All that I am defending is the belief that Jesus Christ exists and is alive today. You will again ask what that even means but I wont tell you. Figure it out for yourself.
The reason that I debate here at EvC on these matters is because all of you claim that the characters in the book are limited to the book. Some of you choose to be atheists and some of you claim to be believers but the common thread amongst all of you is the idea that humans create the gods they worship. It has been my experience and subsequent belief that God is alive and that through communion with Jesus Christ I accept this and know it. Perhaps someday I will be proven wrong, but if so, God Himself will do it...it wont be by any human agent. I know too much to ever look back.

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 440 by jar, posted 06-26-2020 12:42 PM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 445 by ringo, posted 06-26-2020 4:10 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14148
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 442 of 505 (878167)
06-26-2020 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 440 by jar
06-26-2020 12:42 PM


Only Medicine Men Make These Claims?
jar writes:

It is the medicine men standing on the tailgate of the medicine wagon selling Snake Oil that make the claims of TRUTH or WISDOM.

Is that so?
Our Daily Bread
Yes I copied a website. Yes, it says what I would have said anyway in my defense of your medicine man accusation. I grant that many, if not a majority of those who sell religion are apologetic con men. Jesus warned about being lukewarm in the book of Revelation, saying how He wished we humans were either cold or hot.

You have yet to prove that the apologetic message common to many if not most Christians falsely proclaims a living Christ who rose from the dead, sent the comforter(Holy Spirit) to earth (yes exclusively for whosoever believes) and yet also inclusively as a warm blanket for humanity-at-large and will return in bodily form some day.

We simply ask you to look at reality honestly; what is actually written.
But you yourself said that the book was written, conceived, edited, and redacted solely in the mind of humans. So why push this idea of what was actually written? I'll tell you why. You want to describe your own narrative which minimizes Jesus Christ and maximizes human responsibility. John the Baptist said the opposite. Humans must decrease and Jesus must increase. (paraphrased)

I could well say that your argument contains as much snake oil as mine does...and at the end of the day we are both humans attempting to define our belief.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 440 by jar, posted 06-26-2020 12:42 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 443 by jar, posted 06-26-2020 2:55 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32664
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 443 of 505 (878169)
06-26-2020 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 442 by Phat
06-26-2020 2:29 PM


Only Medicine Men Make Those Claims
Phat writes:

I could well say that your argument contains as much snake oil as mine does...and at the end of the day we are both humans attempting to define our belief.

You could say that but of course you could not support that. You and all the Apologists simply take the pieces parts that you like but skim over and never process the whole.

What I ask you to do is honestly look beyond the claims to what is actually written, what is actually the history, what is actually the basics of Christianity.

Sure the sprinkles and cherry on top are attractive and an easy sell, but look beyond.

Edited by jar, : fix sub-title


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 442 by Phat, posted 06-26-2020 2:29 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 448 by Phat, posted 06-27-2020 6:18 AM jar has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18332
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 444 of 505 (878175)
06-26-2020 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 439 by Phat
06-26-2020 12:14 PM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

What ulterior motives would the critics of your dogma have?


The same motives that satan himself has.

Forget about that fairy tale. Talk about reality.

Phat writes:

To discredit Jesus Christ...


Why would I want to discredit somebody who never existed?

Phat writes:

... to seduce people (through false logic and wisdom)...


Point out the false logic.

Phat writes:

... to ultimately deny the truth in the Bible, throw the book away as an authoritative source...


But you're the one who throws out the Bible.

Phat writes:

... and to promote inclusive humanism.


Jesus promoted inclusive humanism. Why are you afraid to discuss that?

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 439 by Phat, posted 06-26-2020 12:14 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 447 by Phat, posted 06-27-2020 6:14 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18332
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 445 of 505 (878177)
06-26-2020 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 441 by Phat
06-26-2020 2:15 PM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
Phat writes:

I know too much to ever look back.


You don't know half as much as you think you do.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 441 by Phat, posted 06-26-2020 2:15 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 446 by Phat, posted 06-27-2020 6:10 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14148
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 446 of 505 (878204)
06-27-2020 6:10 AM
Reply to: Message 445 by ringo
06-26-2020 4:10 PM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
Actually...it is you who are clueless. We are in the last days. The signs are all around us. Here is what you will see.
1) Lawlessness. More tearing down statues, defunding police and the authority structure of society, scantily clad young women and brazen sexuality coupled with a pagan disregard for the old social structure.....all sorts of sexuality freely flaunted in public under the guise of human rights...a global inclusive religion that accepts all faiths as equally valid,
hatred of exclusive Christianity and op-en mockery which will soon turn into blatant hatred and even a push to shut the prophets up as they will be charged with being a public nuisance and politically incorrect.

To be fair, there will be many nuts running around. They are also a scheme of the enemy...making the Christians look stupid.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 445 by ringo, posted 06-26-2020 4:10 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 450 by ringo, posted 06-27-2020 9:25 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14148
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 447 of 505 (878205)
06-27-2020 6:14 AM
Reply to: Message 444 by ringo
06-26-2020 4:07 PM


Jesus promoted inclusive humanism.
Jesus promoted inclusive humanism. Why are you afraid to discuss that?
Im not afraid at all. The difference is that Jesus was the authority rather than lawlessness. He was the fulfillment of the law. He was and is Love, Truth, and the fulfillment of the Laws given by Moses. He is the law written on human hearts. Without Him all we have is a bunch of hippy socialists who advocate free love, anything goes sex with any gender combination,l and every religion being equally valid. The rights of the individual will be protected, but the authority of Jesus Christ will be mocked, ridiculed, and ultimately banned.

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 444 by ringo, posted 06-26-2020 4:07 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 451 by ringo, posted 06-27-2020 9:30 AM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14148
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 448 of 505 (878206)
06-27-2020 6:18 AM
Reply to: Message 443 by jar
06-26-2020 2:55 PM


Re: Only Medicine Men Make Those Claims
What I ask you to do is honestly look beyond the claims to what is actually written, what is actually the history, what is actually the basics of Christianity.
If the conclusion reached is that god is a human creation, you can see why I reject your "honesty" and Socratic study of comparative religions and inclusiveness.

And the reason you see no problem with it is that not only do you see God as a symbol of human purpose yet vague and abstract, you dont believe that evil exists as a spirit. The Man of lawlessness will soon follow. And just as the Jews were blinded as to their Messiah back in Romans, you and others will be blinded as to the times we are in.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 443 by jar, posted 06-26-2020 2:55 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 449 by jar, posted 06-27-2020 8:05 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32664
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 449 of 505 (878208)
06-27-2020 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 448 by Phat
06-27-2020 6:18 AM


Re: Only Medicine Men Make Those Claims
And so once again you present no reasoning, no argument, no evidence.

Is there a pattern you can see Phat?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 448 by Phat, posted 06-27-2020 6:18 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18332
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 450 of 505 (878211)
06-27-2020 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 446 by Phat
06-27-2020 6:10 AM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
Phat writes:

We are in the last days.


We've been in the "last days" for two thousand years. Isn't that fairy tale getting a bit tired by now?

Phat writes:

Here is what you will see.
1) Lawlessness.


We've had that for two thousand years - and for two thousand years before that and for two thousand years before that and....

So, is #1 all you've got?

Phat writes:

...a global inclusive religion that accepts all faiths as equally valid...


HOW, in your addled brain, can you consider that a bad thing? Jesus said, "Whosoever."

Phat writes:

...hatred of exclusive Christianity...


It's excusivity that's based on hatred. You're perfectly willing to watch the rest of us roast in hell.

Phat writes:

...a push to shut the prophets up...


Again, nobody's trying to shut you up. Please, answer your posts.

Phat writes:

... the enemy...making the Christians look stupid.


You don't need an enemy to do that for you.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 446 by Phat, posted 06-27-2020 6:10 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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