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Author Topic:   Catholics are making it up.
Phat
Member
Posts: 14148
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 496 of 505 (878438)
06-30-2020 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 495 by Tangle
06-30-2020 3:05 AM


Re: Belief & Sanity
OK so you've made a decent case that *religion* and the traditions of man are by and large invented. But why does this carry over into the very idea of the story of Jesus being invented? And why does it mean for many that the concept of GOD is invented? I have heard some fairly strong persuasion from the few people whom I trust and know who beg to differ. Of course, without evidence all we have is belief...but why does your belief seem to be so weak in this area?

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 495 by Tangle, posted 06-30-2020 3:05 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 497 by jar, posted 06-30-2020 9:27 AM Phat has responded
 Message 504 by Tangle, posted 06-30-2020 12:14 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32664
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 497 of 505 (878439)
06-30-2020 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 496 by Phat
06-30-2020 8:55 AM


Re: Belief & Sanity
Phat writes:

I have heard some fairly strong persuasion from the few people whom I trust and know who beg to differ.

And that is your really big error.

You are still placing SOURCE over content.

You are basing you decision on what you believe about the speaker rather than what is being said.

Your error is in "trust and know".


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 496 by Phat, posted 06-30-2020 8:55 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 498 by Phat, posted 06-30-2020 9:43 AM jar has responded
 Message 499 by Phat, posted 06-30-2020 9:48 AM jar has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14148
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 498 of 505 (878440)
06-30-2020 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 497 by jar
06-30-2020 9:27 AM


Re: Belief & Sanity
Yeah but look at the fruits! You trust content, logic, reason and reality and you are left not knowing. You believe though cannot prove (even to yourself) and you have had to place the whole idea of Jesus Christ and one GOD Creator of all seen and unseen on an unknowable place.
Which is honest but limiting.

My next question (for myself as well as the peanut gallery) is this:
Does GOD care? You have asked before why GOD should care about me any more than pond scum. My answer is that Jesus came for that very reason. Jesus is essentially the liaison between the Creator of all seen and unseen and humanity.

Do you agree with that belief or will you simply say that its an apologetic fantasy? Your answer will determine my further line of questions.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 497 by jar, posted 06-30-2020 9:27 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 500 by jar, posted 06-30-2020 9:55 AM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14148
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 499 of 505 (878441)
06-30-2020 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 497 by jar
06-30-2020 9:27 AM


Re: Belief & Sanity
jar,edited for spelling writes:

You are basing your decision on what you believe about the speaker rather than what is being said.

Your error is in "trust and know".

You are correct to a degree. When it comes to the Bible, I believe that Jesus is real...alive today (not in biological terms at least in this earthly realm) and that the Spirit is eternal. Unlike you, I DONT believe that the communion is automatically available to all of humanity...I believe that we have to believe and trust both the source(God) and the content(what is written) as well as our own intuition.

I believe that we are by extension the Body of Christ. Most of us are weak at actually living it, however.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 497 by jar, posted 06-30-2020 9:27 AM jar has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32664
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 500 of 505 (878442)
06-30-2020 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 498 by Phat
06-30-2020 9:43 AM


Re: Belief & Sanity
Phat writes:

Jesus is essentially the liaison between the Creator of all seen and unseen and humanity.

Do you agree with that belief or will you simply say that its an apologetic fantasy?

I say that is just word salad with absolutely no meaning whatsoever. It's also yet another example of how you compartmentalize your beliefs to avoid having to actually address the inconsistencies and contradictions.

It's just another misrepresentation and tap dance to avoid addressing what I posted.

Phat writes:

You trust content, logic, reason and reality and you are left not knowing.

Basics Phat, basics.

You should not simply trust logic or reason, rather you use them test your beliefs against reality. Logic and reason are but tools to determine that you are actually looking at conforms to reality.

What you do is simply trust what the Medicine Men say about the Snake Oil they are selling without ever actually reading the label and ingredients list.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 498 by Phat, posted 06-30-2020 9:43 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 501 by Phat, posted 06-30-2020 10:08 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14148
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 501 of 505 (878443)
06-30-2020 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 500 by jar
06-30-2020 9:55 AM


Re: Belief & Sanity
But I dont simply trust or follow medicine men. I read for myself. I dont know why you always claim that I do. For all I know, you are a medicine man. I dont trust the ones who claim that the Bible was a marketing tool and who point out contradictions and errors. If we throw the Bible away, how then can we even know God? (Of course, answering my own question, I realize that there have beejn anointed people who did have a relationship either with Jesus personally or with His Spirit (such as what transformed Saul to Paul). You are a bit more skeptical...which...again...limits what you believe.

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 500 by jar, posted 06-30-2020 9:55 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 502 by jar, posted 06-30-2020 10:25 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32664
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 502 of 505 (878444)
06-30-2020 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 501 by Phat
06-30-2020 10:08 AM


Re: Belief & Sanity
Phat writes:

If we throw the Bible away, how then can we even know God?

Only you and the Apologists throw the Bible away Phat. That in fact is the Job Description of an Apologist; to make shit up to deny what is actually written in the Bible.

And with the Bible, how can you know God? Which God; the one in Genesis 1 or the earlier one in Genesis 2&3 or the evil bastard found in Exodus or the New Testament God that decides it's a great Idea to create then kill his son instead of just forgiving whoever He wants?

Tell me how you can know any God including the one you create?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 501 by Phat, posted 06-30-2020 10:08 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 503 by Phat, posted 06-30-2020 11:08 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14148
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 503 of 505 (878447)
06-30-2020 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 502 by jar
06-30-2020 10:25 AM


Re: Belief & Sanity
Perhaps you should ask yourself that question.

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 502 by jar, posted 06-30-2020 10:25 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 505 by jar, posted 06-30-2020 12:15 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7723
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 504 of 505 (878450)
06-30-2020 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 496 by Phat
06-30-2020 8:55 AM


Re: Belief & Sanity
Phat writes:

OK so you've made a decent case that *religion* and the traditions of man are by and large invented. But why does this carry over into the very idea of the story of Jesus being invented?

Why would you think that Jesus mythology is any different than any other mythology?

And why does it mean for many that the concept of GOD is invented?

Why doesn't it? You accept that all the hundreds of gods of pre-history are inventions. Why should the one that you believe in totally by accident of birth is any different? It's just exceptionalism.

In fact you even accept that all the traditions of other Christian beliefs except your specific one are made up

We're getting to the point where there's no reason at all why we should think that it isn't all made up aren't we?

I have heard some fairly strong persuasion from the few people whom I trust and know who beg to differ.

Of course you have. You mix with your own company.

Of course, without evidence all we have is belief...but why does your belief seem to be so weak in this area?

It's not weak, it's non-existent. Exactly - and I mean exactly - like your non-belief in Vishnu. As has been said many times but it never seems to make any contact. Your delusion renders you incapable of thought.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 496 by Phat, posted 06-30-2020 8:55 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32664
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 505 of 505 (878451)
06-30-2020 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 503 by Phat
06-30-2020 11:08 AM


Re: Belief & Sanity
Phat writes:

Perhaps you should ask yourself that question.

I have Phat and I can see absolutely no way it might be possible while I am still alive.

YOU and the Medicine-Men are the ones claiming that it's possible.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 503 by Phat, posted 06-30-2020 11:08 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
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