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Author Topic:   Catholics are making it up.
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 76 of 507 (768279)
09-10-2015 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Tangle
09-10-2015 4:26 AM


Re: Clarion call
Tangle writes:
Atheists have a large angry dog in this fight.
Down boy. Stay.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Tangle, posted 09-10-2015 4:26 AM Tangle has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 77 of 507 (768280)
09-10-2015 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Faith
09-10-2015 10:56 AM


Re: Original Sin
Faith writes:
A great deal of doctrine is inferred....
That's pretty much the definition of "made up".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 10:56 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Omnivorous, posted 09-10-2015 12:50 PM ringo has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 78 of 507 (768286)
09-10-2015 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by ringo
09-10-2015 12:10 PM


Re: Original Sin
ringo writes:
Faith writes:
A great deal of doctrine is inferred....
That's pretty much the definition of "made up".
Early on, I inferred that "original sin" must be a challenge. I did my best.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by ringo, posted 09-10-2015 12:10 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by ringo, posted 09-10-2015 1:03 PM Omnivorous has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 79 of 507 (768287)
09-10-2015 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Omnivorous
09-10-2015 12:50 PM


Re: Original Sin
Omnivorous writes:
Early on, I inferred that "original sin" must be a challenge. I did my best.
If the original sin was eating an apple, that isn't hard to beat.

This message is a reply to:
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 80 of 507 (768288)
09-10-2015 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Faith
09-10-2015 7:45 AM


Re: Blessed are the Magnanimous
Faith writes:
There is only one true religion, one true revelation of God and that is the Bible. Nothing "made up" about it. If I thought any of it was I wouldn't be a believer.
I knew you were going to say that.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

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 Message 62 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 7:45 AM Faith has not replied

  
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2131 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 81 of 507 (768294)
09-10-2015 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Tangle
09-10-2015 4:08 AM


Tangle writes:
The point I'm making is that when religions drop long held doctrines, they expose themselves to the obvious criticism that they were wrong about what they previously described as a truth. The comparison with science is not valid - science is a search for knowledge from evidence and its finding are admitted to be tentative and subject to change. Religions are dogmatic - believe this or go to hell.
You've never come across scientists who are dogmatic?!?
You've never come across religious believers who are humble?!?
Science is man's attempt to understand nature. Theology is man's attempt to understand God and holy Scripture. Both understandings are necessarily incomplete and subject to correction and improvement. Serious students of both disciplines readily admit this.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Tangle, posted 09-10-2015 4:08 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 3:18 PM kbertsche has replied
 Message 91 by Tangle, posted 09-10-2015 4:50 PM kbertsche has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 82 of 507 (768297)
09-10-2015 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by kbertsche
09-10-2015 3:09 PM


You've never come across scientists who are dogmatic?!?
You've never come across religious believers who are humble?!?
In the case of Biblical revelation it is NOT humble to subject it to fallible human scrutiny. THat's in fact the opposite of humility.
Science is man's attempt to understand nature. Theology is man's attempt to understand God and holy Scripture.
I don't think so. Not Christian theology. It's an attempt to understand what God has revealed in scripture. Your way of putting it implies something more like working in the dark to come up with something that convinces us.
Both understandings are necessarily incomplete and subject to correction and improvement. Serious students of both disciplines readily admit this.
I agree there is always more to learn about the Bible. But using it to validate evolution is not good theology, it's reading your own prejudices into it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by kbertsche, posted 09-10-2015 3:09 PM kbertsche has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by vimesey, posted 09-10-2015 3:38 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 95 by kbertsche, posted 09-10-2015 6:57 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 83 of 507 (768298)
09-10-2015 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Faith
09-10-2015 10:56 AM


Re: Original Sin
Faith writes:
Only literal-minded dunderheadedness requires the Bible to state doctrine in so many words. A great deal of doctrine is inferred, but that takes a lot of thought, which is beyond some.
Again, thank you Faith. Yes, almost all doctrine is stuff the salesmen make up and NOT what Jesus or what is actually written in the bible stories.
Finally you admit the truth.
Doctrine is made up.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 10:56 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 3:31 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 84 of 507 (768299)
09-10-2015 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by jar
09-10-2015 3:25 PM


Re: Original Sin
How stuppidd. inference is a method of solving puzzles. You assemble the facts and study how they are related to each other. Utter utter stupppidddity to call that making stuff up,. Sheer iddiocy.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by jar, posted 09-10-2015 3:25 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 09-10-2015 3:35 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 85 of 507 (768300)
09-10-2015 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Faith
09-10-2015 3:31 PM


Re: Original Sin
So you say; yet the fact remains that doctrine very seldom resembles or even reflects what is actually written.
When you ignore truth and facts then your inferences are unlikely to be correct.
You do not assemble facts, rather you simply ignore those facts that do not fit your desired conclusion.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 3:31 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 3:40 PM jar has replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 86 of 507 (768301)
09-10-2015 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Faith
09-10-2015 3:18 PM


Your way of putting it implies something more like working in the dark to come up with something that convinces us.
That's probably more how we reckon the original priests, back in the day, did it.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 3:18 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 87 of 507 (768302)
09-10-2015 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by jar
09-10-2015 3:35 PM


Re: Original Sin
First sin ever = original sin.
Hid from God. Communication broken. Passed this on to the rest of us. None of us naturally has communication with God.
We are told in the New Testament that salvation is regeneration or "quickening," from which we infer that the spirit had died.
Adam and Eve did eventually die physically, which they would not have if they hadn't disobeyed God.
We all inherit susceptibility to diseases of all kinds and death, which we would not have if they hadn't disobeyed God. Inference from New Testament's saying death entered the world by Adam.
Not spending much time on this, you aren't going to get it anyway.
The idea of a "desired conclusion" is perfect iddiocy. Where would anyone get the idea to desire any particular explanation of these things? They can only be arrived at by study.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 09-10-2015 3:35 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by jar, posted 09-10-2015 3:48 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 88 of 507 (768304)
09-10-2015 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Faith
09-10-2015 3:40 PM


Re: Original Sin
But you are proving my point. You are simply repeating stuff the New Testament writers and later apologists made up and ignoring what is actually written in the Genesis 2&3 story.
I would be more honest to say that the god character lied and the serpent told the truth that the Original Sin is the god character issuing commands while denying Adam & Steve the tools necessary to obey those commands and then punishing them for Her (the god character) failings.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 3:40 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 4:00 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 89 of 507 (768305)
09-10-2015 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by jar
09-10-2015 3:48 PM


Re: Original Sin
The New Testament is the explanation of the Old Testament, as understood by true Protestants. You reduce scripture to something inane. Disgusting and blasphemous.,
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by jar, posted 09-10-2015 3:48 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by jar, posted 09-10-2015 4:21 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 90 of 507 (768307)
09-10-2015 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Faith
09-10-2015 4:00 PM


Re: Original Sin
But my position can and is supported by what is actually written in Genesis 2&3 Faith and that is a significant difference.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 4:00 PM Faith has not replied

  
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